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View Poll Results: If you were forced to chose, would you say free-will exists (in some form)?

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  • Yes. Free will exists in some form.

    18 72.00%
  • No. Free will does not exists in any form.

    3 12.00%
  • Screw You! I will not be forced to decide.

    4 16.00%
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  1. #21
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    ...neither of which is "Ouch!"
    Touche.
    (ouch)

    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    I'm cool with being a biological machine.
    You are truly a Terminatrix!
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #22
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    I am one of the three people (so far) who have voted that free will does not exist. My brother has a Ph.D. in physics and says that the particle-level stuff is irrelevant on higher levels.

    I'm cool with being a biological machine.
    That renders ethical concerns rather moot, doesn't it?

  3. #23
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    That renders ethical concerns rather moot, doesn't it?
    So isn't making ethical choices an expression of faith in free will? Even if you don't really believe free will exists? To act as if it does is a faith statement?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #24
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    So isn't making ethical choices an expression of faith in free will? Even if you don't really believe free will exists? To act as if it does is a faith statement?
    If there isn't free will, you're not really making ethical choices...so the question of faith is irrelevant, too.

  5. #25
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    If there isn't free will, you're not really making ethical choices...so the question of faith is irrelevant, too.


    okeydokily.

    So, if there is no free will, then the choice to punish those who behave inappropriately (i.e., out of accordance with majority opinion) is not really a choice either.

    People are compelled to disobey; people are compelled to punish disobedience; people are compelled to complain about punishing those who disobey; and I am compelled to be posting on this forum rather than doing my normally scheduled work.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #26
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    That renders ethical concerns rather moot, doesn't it?
    Yes it does.

    But - who'da thunk it - I seem to be a nice person anyway.

  7. #27
    The elder Holmes Mycroft's Avatar
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    My vote is for "I really don't consider myself qualified to even propose a theory let alone answer with a definitive yes or no" but since it's not one of the radio buttons I'll just post here.
    Dost thou love Life? Then do not squander Time; for that's the Stuff Life is made of.

    -- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, June 1746 --

  8. #28
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    But - who'da thunk it - I seem to be a nice person anyway.
    If there is no such thing as "free will," the word "nice" is meaningless.

    (You are simply what you are.)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #29
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    If there is no such thing as "free will," the word "nice" is meaningless.

    (You are simply what you are.)
    I was just satirizing the assumption among some that disbelief in free will (and/or God-given morality) must necessarily lead to libertinism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    You are truly a Terminatrix!
    I wish!

  10. #30
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    I was just satirizing the assumption among some that disbelief in free will (and/or God-given morality) must necessarily lead to libertinism.
    Well, even with that being said, libertinism ("devoid of any restraints, especially one who ignores or even spurns religious norms, accepted morals, and forms of behaviour sanctioned by the larger society") is rather meaningless, isn't it?

    It no longer matters whether you happen to conform or not conform to the majority opinion, or why you do/don't conform. No meaningful distinctions can be made because one is simply acting according to nature.

    (Is that right?)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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