I invite you to pick apart Christianity

[thisGuy]

Q: If god is all-knowing, then why the fuck would he have to incarnate himself as a man to know the human experience?

its man who is in need to knowing the god experience.

all those incarnations have been to answer man's questions...call it a lifeline from god if you want

 

[EffEmDoubleyou]

So by extension is [insert anything that hasn't been proven] just as likely to exist as not?

Not exactly. Not to get into a whole big thing, but let's assume that the Big Bang theory is correct, and that the universe has developed exactly as science has demonstrated, and that evolution is a fact (all things I believe to be true.)

There still has to be a WHY. Why was there even a Big Bang? Why is there matter? Why is there anything? I think an omniscient being resembling most accounts of God is at least as good an explanation as "I have no idea, but I know it's not God because that's just silly", which is a pretty accurate distillation of the scientific opinion.

 

[thisGuy]

I think an omniscient being resembling most accounts of God is at least as good an explanation as "I have no idea, but I know it's not God because that's just silly", which is a pretty accurate distillation of the scientific opinion.

more or less...and also very ignorant i think

if one day, we are gonna wake up and find out we are in a parody of the matrix...ill be very pissed for being woken up

 

[Feops]

Not exactly. Not to get into a whole big thing, but let's assume that the Big Bang theory is correct, and that the universe has developed exactly as science has demonstrated, and that evolution is a fact (all things I believe to be true.)

There still has to be a WHY. Why was there even a Big Bang? Why is there matter? Why is there anything? I think an omniscient being resembling most accounts of God is at least as good an explanation as "I have no idea, but I know it's not God because that's just silly", which is a pretty accurate distillation of the scientific opinion.

Only because we accept it as a culture. Ask any christian about the old roman gods - they would think it silly to worship them despite that we can't disprove their existance. Or if you care to poke a little fun, try flying spaghetti monster.

 

[avolkiteshvara]

God is clearly a psychopathic peadeophile acting through priests to incite:

-generations of religious genocide
-enslavement of indiginious cultures
- historical and current rape of young childeren.

 

[ajblaise]

Not exactly. Not to get into a whole big thing, but let's assume that the Big Bang theory is correct, and that the universe has developed exactly as science has demonstrated, and that evolution is a fact (all things I believe to be true.)

There still has to be a WHY. Why was there even a Big Bang? Why is there matter? Why is there anything? I think an omniscient being resembling most accounts of God is at least as good an explanation as "I have no idea, but I know it's not God because that's just silly", which is a pretty accurate distillation of the scientific opinion.

If an intelligent being created the universe and the Big Bang, what created the intelligent being? Saying a supernatural deity started all of this goes one or two steps further than the Big Bang theory, but unlike the Big Bang theory, there is no evidence or reason to support it.

 

[Misty_Mountain_Rose]

If an intelligent being created the universe and the Big Bang, what created the intelligent being? Saying a supernatural deity started all of this goes one or two steps further than the Big Bang theory, but unlike the Big Bang theory, there is no evidence or reason to support it.

Hehe, my first theological debate with my devout grandfather happened when I asked him 'If God made the world, where did God come from?'

The answer is most likely that men created God, and not the other way around.

Which, I might add, I'm not entirely opposed to because people often need to believe that we are here for a greater purpose than to live and die. Some of the principles of Christianity are decent ideals and worth striving for. But I can also pursue those ideals without reciting bogus lines and performing rituals like a zombie with a crowd of other brain-washed people.

To each his own... but what makes one crowd think that Baptism, or Lent, or Communion or Confession, ETC are the one and only TRUE way to worship their God appropriately?

When it comes down to it, Christianity is still a polytheistic religion because there is no one, standard way to be a Christian, except that one must believe that Christ is the resurrected son of God. (The major initial break between Christianity and Catholicism)

I could be mistaken, but according to Catholicism, isn't Christianity blasphemy because you are worshiping a MAN who existed in the flesh, which is supposedly a sin?.... Yet they worship Mary, who was also a person? (Sorry... a SAINT!)

There are so many quagmires in the different religions it makes your head spin.

 

[ajblaise]

The answer is most likely that men created God, and not the other way around.

Yeah. And the sooner people come to grips with the existence of social constructs, the better.

 

[Shaula]

Q: If god is all-knowing, then why the fuck would he have to incarnate himself as a man to know the human experience?

For shits and giggles.

 

[garbage]

as god made us in his image, does it not follow that some of our characteristics are reflected in the true image which is god himself?

Sure, which is what I was getting at with this:

And since God "has made us all in his likeness," we all have a piece of the world-changing power of God inside of us, just as Jesus did. That is, we all have the power to reach happiness and to achieve great things for the betterment of the world around us. Hell is detachment from that power--"separation from God," as it were.

But just because some of our characteristics can "come from God," that doesn't mean that he shares our motivations, emotions, or physical characteristics. This is simply challenging the notion that God gets angry and throws temper tantrums, or that God really is a bearded Superman in the sky.

In other words.. I take this all metaphorically to mean something along the lines of: "God made us all in His perfect, forgiving image. And it's up to you to tap into God's characteristics that lay dormant within yourself."

 

[Totenkindly]

Dr. Tim Keller wrote an amazing book called "The Reason for God".
I would suggest at very least reading the first page.

Okay.

Now what?

(I happen to agree, btw, that usually in fights both sides have some meat to their perspective... and it's been my frustration when I engage in conversation with people who feel they are holding an exclusive truth.)

I am neither armenian or calvinist, nor do I believe in denomination, I believe God's word.

And Jews believe the Torah.
And Muslims believe the Koran.

...and note that there are countless shades of belief within those two groups... as there are among self-professed Christians -- note all the denominations -- so what exactly does it mean to "believe God's Word"? And why one particular view of God's word and not another? What makes one particular reading of one particular holy book the "approved" version of God's word and will on planet Earth?

Perhaps 70 years ago the majority of western society accepted one particular reading of the Bible as a "given"... but that is no longer the case, so there has to be some agreement up front about what two people accept as an authority before any meaningful conversation can happen. If you launch into expounding theology without first agreeing on the basics, any argument you make will have no traction with the listener.

I could be mistaken, but according to Catholicism, isn't Christianity blasphemy because you are worshiping a MAN who existed in the flesh, which is supposedly a sin?.... Yet they worship Mary, who was also a person? (Sorry... a SAINT!).

That's why Protestants believe Catholics are wrong. Jesus was godman, and mary was a woman.

if one day, we are gonna wake up and find out we are in a parody of the matrix...ill be very pissed for being woken up

I bet you're looking for the woman in the red dress.

 

[Sniffles]

When it comes down to it, Christianity is still a polytheistic religion because there is no one, standard way to be a Christian, except that one must believe that Christ is the resurrected son of God. (The major initial break between Christianity and Catholicism)

I could be mistaken, but according to Catholicism, isn't Christianity blasphemy because you are worshiping a MAN who existed in the flesh, which is supposedly a sin?.... Yet they worship Mary, who was also a person? (Sorry... a SAINT!)

Perhaps you should read Catholicism for Dummies before making anymore comments.

 

[simulatedworld]

As for the question of John 3:16...

I always had to wonder why God couldn't just arbitrarily forgive humanity for its sins. Why was a sacrifice necessary? From where was the condition "someone must die in order for humanity's sins to be forgiven" imposed?

Why couldn't God simply decide that no sacrifice was necessary? It's painted as this definition of nobility, of sacrifice because he so loved the world that he sacrificed his only to save it...blah blah.

This makes absolutely no effing sense. He's GOD; if he wants to give humanity another shot without crucifying his own son (who is really kind of also himself anyway, but not really? ehhh?), he can do that.

He can do whatever the fuck he wants; he's omnipotent, omniscient and timeless.

 

[EffEmDoubleyou]

Perhaps you should read Catholicism for Dummies before making anymore comments.

+1.

Nobody worships Mary, and Catholics also believe that Jesus was God incarnate as man and worthy of worship. The main differences between Protestants and Catholics today are:

1. The belief that taking communion is taking the physical body of Jesus. Catholics do, Protestants don't.
2. The belief in a literal interpretation of the Bible. Protestants (mostly evangelicals) do, Catholics don't.

It's not germane to the discussion at hand, but it still bugs me.

 

[Sniffles]

Well there's also the issue concenring the authority of the Pope, can't forget that.

 

[garbage]

As for the question of John 3:16...

I always had to wonder why God couldn't just arbitrarily forgive humanity for its sins. Why was a sacrifice necessary? From where was the condition "someone must die in order for humanity's sins to be forgiven" imposed?

Why couldn't God simply decide that no sacrifice was necessary? It's painted as this definition of nobility, of sacrifice because he so loved the world that he sacrificed his only to save it...blah blah.

This makes absolutely no effing sense. He's GOD; if he wants to give humanity another shot without crucifying his own son (who is really kind of also himself anyway, but not really? ehhh?), he can do that.

He can do whatever the fuck he wants; he's omnipotent, omniscient and timeless.

I'm again taking this metaphorically, so it's not really an answer to your question. Historically, it's kind of important.

People used to sacrifice to gods all the time. In fact, in many translations, "god" means "one which we sacrifice to".. yeah. This symbolic act was, basically, God's way of making the "ultimate sacrifice" so that we no longer have to sacrifice to please gods.

Something like that.. maybe someone else can word this better.

I think the higher levels of discourse on this topic acknowledge that that's a poor reason to follow God. In other word, the "serious" Christians who have progressed from the disciplinarian variation of the faith to the more positive-oriented ones usually have other reasons for obedience to their faith.

Yeah, agreed. And, unfortunately, these seem to be the only kind of people I can actually have any sort of religious discussion with. Those who use God as the sole reason for things of the nature I described tend to use God as the sole reason for everything in an unquestioning manner

 

[Misty_Mountain_Rose]

Perhaps you should read Catholicism for Dummies before making anymore comments.

+1.

Nobody worships Mary, and Catholics also believe that Jesus was God incarnate as man and worthy of worship. The main differences between Protestants and Catholics today are:

1. The belief that taking communion is taking the physical body of Jesus. Catholics do, Protestants don't.
2. The belief in a literal interpretation of the Bible. Protestants (mostly evangelicals) do, Catholics don't.

It's not germane to the discussion at hand, but it still bugs me.

I humbly apologize for my own misunderstanding. I DID offer a disclaimer though that I could be mistaken, which I obviously was. Please don't take my ignorance personally!

 

[thisGuy]

Sure, which is what I was getting at with this:



But just because some of our characteristics can "come from God," that doesn't mean that he shares our motivations, emotions, or physical characteristics. This is simply challenging the notion that God gets angry and throws temper tantrums, or that God really is a bearded Superman in the sky.

In other words.. I take this all metaphorically to mean something along the lines of: "God made us all in His perfect, forgiving image. And it's up to you to tap into God's characteristics that lay dormant within yourself."

man is to god what a its reflection in the puddle is to the moon

god cannot be throwing temper tantrums...if we are to have a god that is expressed in our likeliness, it will be ideal likeliness...an equinamous image. after all, god is an entity we look upto.

that said, i think we are on the same page.

...taught his students the need for direct experience of truth, as opposed to blind belief. He said that, "The true basis of religion is not belief, but intuitive experience. Intuition is the soul’s power of knowing God. To know what religion is really all about, one must know God.

who did? this guy:
Yogananda, Paramahansa

 

[Quinlan]

The god of the old testament seems like a nasty piece of work, if that is god I'll take my chances with the devil.

 

[Take Five]

Some people believe what they want to believe, and then come up with rationalizations for the belief.

That being said, haven't we had enough Christianity bashing? Especially in the area of Catholicism, some people here really don't know what they're talking about.