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  1. #71
    Senior Member Argus's Avatar
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    200,00 years, you don't say?
    I surely hope what you're saying is done tough in cheek.


    But seriously man come on, be some what relevant.

    I once talked to this kid that wanted to sue God and said that because he couldn't it was a violation of church and state. You remind me of him.


    Do you have anything useful to add?

  2. #72
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    I am sorry guys but Christianity simply does not make an sense at all.
    The entire concept is simply full of logical holes.

  3. #73
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Argus2968 View Post
    200,00 years, you don't say?
    I surely hope what you're saying is done tough in cheek.

    But seriously man come on, be some what relevant.

    I once talked to this kid that wanted to sue God and said that because he couldn't it was a violation of church and state. You remind me of him.

    Do you have anything useful to add?
    I am familiar with Christian Apologetics.

    And I know it is a one way dialogue.

    In fact it is simply another way of propagating the Faith.

    It is a form of propaganda.

  4. #74
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Argus2968 View Post
    Victor, I'm not quite sure what you're post was all about.
    I think he was saying that if you step outside the context of your faith (because that's where you are right now -- you're just seeing Christianity through a particular set of eyes) and look at Christianity from the outside, to some people the blood/human sacrifices demanded by Christianity are barbaric.

    Theology doesn't matter -- theology only works as a justification if you already accept all tenets of Christianity as true.

    For someone who just looks at Christianity, they see that (1) blood sacrifices have been typical in barbaric societies over millenia and (2) nowadays if a parent murders their kid, saying it's a sacrifice to God, we lock them up and/or deem them "crazy." It's offensive in a lot of ways ... not because people are evil and trying to reject God, but protecting children is a morally good parental instinct. Just about every parent would rather die themselves than allow their children to be sacrificed.

    But instead Christianity promotes God sacrificing his son -- even though Jesus begs off if possible, "sweating blood" due to the stress -- and we get the example of Abraham/Isaac (although at that point Isaac was probably a young man, not a kid, so the sacrifice was mutual and not parental abuse). Lutherans and some other Christian denoms claims that the wine of communion becomes Jesus' "real blood" via transubstantiation.

    And Christians say we are supposed to emulate and express the heart of God. The "whys" do not matter to people outside Christianity; from the outside, it looks damned sick. The whole "communion" thing is why the Romans called early Christians cannibals and from their perspective they would have been correct.

    Is it any wonder that people have issues with this? You need to step outside your own beliefs and theology if you want to grasp why people are taking issues with this sort of belief structure. As I mentioned in a response to you elsewhere today, the information you send through Ti is what determines outcome, but right now you're just sending "pro-Christian" ideas through and so you're not really grasping why people are having issues. You can still maintain your conclusions, but maybe putting yourself in someone else's mindframe would help you understand why they are saying these things.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #75
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    ...
    It is a form of propaganda.
    Just like everything else you disagree with.
    Johari Nohari

    "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. "--Niccolo Machiavelli

  6. #76
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Take Five View Post
    Just like everything else you disagree with.
    "Propaganda", is a word invented by the Roman Catholic Church, as in "Congregatio de Propaganda Fidei", the Congregation for the Propagation of the Faith.

    And I hardly need to tell you that, "Congregatio de Propaganda Fidei", was called, "The Inquisition".

    So today we have propaganda contrasted with free scientific enquiry.

    And we have propaganda contrasted with freedom of speech and thought.

    And the Inquisition were thought police, par excellence. They believed in torturing the body to save the soul. And that is just what they did.

    To be fair though, the Church as recently admitted the Inquisition was a mistake and apologised.

    However it was a 'mistake' that lasted for six hundred years and left us with the word, "propaganda".

    How odd you should take me to task for using it correctly.

  7. #77
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    "Propaganda", is a word invented by the Roman Catholic Church, as in "Congregatio de Propaganda Fidei", the Congregation for the Propagation of the Faith.

    And I hardly need to tell you that, "Congregatio de Propaganda Fidei", was called, "The Inquisition".

    So today we have propaganda contrasted with free scientific enquiry.

    And we have propaganda contrasted with freedom of speech and thought.

    And the Inquisition were thought police, par excellence. They believed in torturing the body to save the soul. And that is just what they did.

    To be fair though, the Church as recently admitted the Inquisition was a mistake and apologised.

    However it was a 'mistake' that lasted for six hundred years and left us with the word, "propaganda".

    How odd you should take me to task for using it correctly.
    Knowing where a word came from doesn't mean you can apply it correctly. As in Christian Apologetics exist before the Inquisition and are not in general propaganda. I seem to recall you also claiming MBTI as propaganda. You'll have to excuse my doubts that you have a clue as to what you're talking about.
    Johari Nohari

    "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. "--Niccolo Machiavelli

  8. #78
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greed View Post
    I'm again taking this metaphorically, so it's not really an answer to your question. Historically, it's kind of important.

    People used to sacrifice to gods all the time. In fact, in many translations, "god" means "one which we sacrifice to".. yeah. This symbolic act was, basically, God's way of making the "ultimate sacrifice" so that we no longer have to sacrifice to please gods.
    So, why didn't God just decide that people didn't need to sacrifice to gods anymore?

    In fact, if he wanted to, he could simply reimagine history such that no sacrifices to gods had ever been made. He can do that--he's God.

    For that matter, he could whip himself up another son in a jiffy, since he's God and all.

    I just really don't buy the concept of God as being 'forced' to do anything. "Ohh nooooo I have to choose between my son and humanity's salvation!!"

    No, you don't. Just change the conditions governing the universe; you're God!
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    The "whys" do not matter to people outside Christianity; from the outside, it looks damned sick. The whole "communion" thing is why the Romans called early Christians cannibals and from their perspective they would have been correct.

    That's the definition of ignorance. Its like a me telling you that aeroplanes are the proof that gravity doesn't exist.

    That said, I agree with you in that knowing the answer is one thing. Getting it through your audiences' head is another

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    So, why didn't God just decide that people didn't need to sacrifice to gods anymore?

    In fact, if he wanted to, he could simply reimagine history such that no sacrifices to gods had ever been made. He can do that--he's God.

    For that matter, he could whip himself up another son in a jiffy, since he's God and all.

    I just really don't buy the concept of God as being 'forced' to do anything. "Ohh nooooo I have to choose between my son and humanity's salvation!!"

    No, you don't. Just change the conditions governing the universe; you're God!
    Taken in a literal sense, I completely agree with you.

    But as it stands, it does make for good allegory. If God just magically fixed our situation in the stories, we wouldn't exactly have any life lessons to learn from them.

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