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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Argus2968 View Post
    You fail to take into account that Jesus died willingly.
    I fail nothing mate.

    And I quote Jesus himself to support me.

    For Jesus said, "Father, let this cup pass from me".

    But I guess your riposte might be, "Even the devil quotes the scriptures for his own purposes".

    And if the devil gets into the act, who can we trust?

    Can we trust a Father who wants us to love Him but tells us the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom?

    Can we trust a Father who uses the very language of the child abuser who asks us to love someone we fear?

    Or can we trust the devil?

    But if we can't trust the devil and we can't trust Father, who can we trust?

  2. #62
    Senior Member Argus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    God defines the price of love as unquestioning obedience. I would rather have the right to question, be an individual, and live in a world without love, than give up that right.

    Well, the four main rules I don't accept are:

    The defined role of women.
    The rules condemning homosexuals and transsexuals as perverse.
    The restrictions on divorce.
    The condoning of slavery.

    I don't know what else is in there right off the bat, but there are probably more that I disagree with.


    1 John chapter 4 verse 10 says it like this "In this is love, not that we have loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins."

    Propitiation is an unusual word in today’s society, it being confined normally to just a handful of theologians that seem to have little more to do with their time than to use long words that seem to confuse the issue. But the concept that propitiation conveys is vitally important for us to understand if we’re to grasp the fullness of the work of Jesus Christ on the cross.

    It refers primarily to the process whereby someone’s wrath is either "averted" or "satisfied", resulting in "mercy" being received. The RSV’s rendering of the word with "expiation" obscures the true meaning for this word is interpreted as "making amends for a wrong".


    I highly suggest you take a look at the video I posted, as it provides a keen insight on God's love. If at very least, watch it as a way to get more ammo.

    I would also watch this short clip:
    Mars Hill Church | Doctrine | Cross: God Dies | Does the Cross Contradict God's Love?


    and Victor, the video also addresses your stance of what happened on the cross was child abuse.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Argus2968 View Post
    1 John chapter 4 verse 10 says it like this "In this is love not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins."

    Propitiation is an unusual word in today’s society, it being confined normally to just a handful of theologians that seem to have little more to do with their time than to use long words that seem to confuse the issue. But the concept that propitiation conveys is vitally important for us to understand if we’re to grasp the fullness of the work of Jesus Christ on the cross.

    It refers primarily to the process whereby someone’s wrath is either "averted" or "satisfied", resulting in "mercy" being received. The RSV’s rendering of the word with "expiation" obscures the true meaning for this word is interpreted as "making amends for a wrong".


    I highly suggest you take a look at the video I posted, as it provides a keen insight on God's love. If at very least, watch it as a way to get more ammo.

    I would also watch this short clip:
    Mars Hill Church | Doctrine | Cross: God Dies | Does the Cross Contradict God's Love?


    and Victor, the video also addresses your stance of what happened on the cross was child abuse.
    I really don't see how that's relevant, sorry. I know all about the rationales for why God's love is justified or good, and I'm tired of them.

    I refuse to accept the four rules I listed, and thus I reject the entire concept and all its followers. It's monolithic and can't be rejected or accepted in pieces, so I reject it wholly.

  4. #64
    Senior Member Argus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I really don't see how that's relevant, sorry. I know all about the rationales for why God's love is justified or good, and I'm tired of them.

    I refuse to accept the four rules I listed, and thus I reject the entire concept and all its followers. It's monolithic and can't be rejected or accepted in pieces, so I reject it wholly.


    That's because I didn't address "those four rules".

    Any comments on the part I did address? (you defined love, then I gave you scripture which suggested another definition)

    I didn't mean to dismiss it. In fact, I honestly don't have an answer worth giving. But I will do some research and ask some pastors about the subject if you actually want me to respond.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Argus2968 View Post
    That's because I didn't address "those four rules".

    Any comments on the part I did address? (you defined love, then I gave you scripture which suggested another definition)

    I didn't mean to dismiss it. In fact, I honestly don't have an answer worth giving. But I will do some research and ask some pastors about the subject if you actually want me to respond.
    There's not much point in responding to me.

    I'm probably a demonic entity. Mwahaha!

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Argus2968 View Post
    Victor, the video also addresses your stance of what happened on the cross was child abuse.
    It was blood sacrifice.

    We have a whole history of sacrificing the best to propitiate the anger of the Father.

    We offer the best of our crops, the best of our lambs and the best of our children in blood sacrifice.

    Good heavens, Jesus is called the Lamb of God. Could it be anymore explicit?

    Today blood sacrifice is against the Common Law.

    So it seems grotesque to worship a Father who wants blood sacrifice.

    And we are told today that the Mass is not a re-enactment of the blood sacrifice of barbaric times, but is an actual real blood sacrifice today.

    And in Islam a blood sacrifice is performed solemnly every year with a goat.

    And I hardly need point out that just 500 years ago the Aztecs were making human sacrifice on their pyramids at the rate of 25,000 a day.

    And indeed Islam says that the blood of infidels and martyrs are pleasing to Allah. So mass murder and suicide bombing is a form of blood sacrifice to God.

    It is now time to end the spilling of blood to gain the favour of God.

  7. #67
    Senior Member Argus's Avatar
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    Entity? No.
    Influenced? Yes.

  8. #68
    Senior Member Argus's Avatar
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    Victor, I'm not quite sure what you're post was all about.

    But aren't you glad it only had to happen once?

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Argus2968 View Post
    Entity? No.
    Influenced? Yes.
    Well, I'd rather be influenced by them than you. So there.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Argus2968 View Post
    Victor, I'm not quite sure what you're post was all about.

    But aren't you glad it only had to happen once?
    It's emblematic.

    Blood sacrifice has been happening for 200,000 years and it's still happening today.

    Only yesterday in Peshawar a blood sacrifice of about 86 living people was made. And the martyrs that performed the blood sacrifice are now in heaven enjoying their 72 virgins, while the infidels are burning in hell.

    But I do point out that it is illegal in Common Law counties, and those who are convicted of blood sacrifice are criminals.

    So it seems odd to me that you are propagating the values and mores of criminality.

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