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  1. #31
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Argus2968 View Post
    Dr. Tim Keller wrote an amazing book called "The Reason for God".
    I would suggest at very least reading the first page.
    Okay.

    Now what?

    (I happen to agree, btw, that usually in fights both sides have some meat to their perspective... and it's been my frustration when I engage in conversation with people who feel they are holding an exclusive truth.)

    Quote Originally Posted by ThinkingAboutIt View Post
    I am neither armenian or calvinist, nor do I believe in denomination, I believe God's word.
    And Jews believe the Torah.
    And Muslims believe the Koran.

    ...and note that there are countless shades of belief within those two groups... as there are among self-professed Christians -- note all the denominations -- so what exactly does it mean to "believe God's Word"? And why one particular view of God's word and not another? What makes one particular reading of one particular holy book the "approved" version of God's word and will on planet Earth?

    Perhaps 70 years ago the majority of western society accepted one particular reading of the Bible as a "given"... but that is no longer the case, so there has to be some agreement up front about what two people accept as an authority before any meaningful conversation can happen. If you launch into expounding theology without first agreeing on the basics, any argument you make will have no traction with the listener.

    Quote Originally Posted by Misty_Mountain_Rose View Post
    I could be mistaken, but according to Catholicism, isn't Christianity blasphemy because you are worshiping a MAN who existed in the flesh, which is supposedly a sin?.... Yet they worship Mary, who was also a person? (Sorry... a SAINT!).
    That's why Protestants believe Catholics are wrong. Jesus was godman, and mary was a woman.

    Quote Originally Posted by thisGuy View Post
    if one day, we are gonna wake up and find out we are in a parody of the matrix...ill be very pissed for being woken up
    I bet you're looking for the woman in the red dress.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misty_Mountain_Rose View Post
    When it comes down to it, Christianity is still a polytheistic religion because there is no one, standard way to be a Christian, except that one must believe that Christ is the resurrected son of God. (The major initial break between Christianity and Catholicism)

    I could be mistaken, but according to Catholicism, isn't Christianity blasphemy because you are worshiping a MAN who existed in the flesh, which is supposedly a sin?.... Yet they worship Mary, who was also a person? (Sorry... a SAINT!)
    Perhaps you should read Catholicism for Dummies before making anymore comments.

  3. #33
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    As for the question of John 3:16...

    I always had to wonder why God couldn't just arbitrarily forgive humanity for its sins. Why was a sacrifice necessary? From where was the condition "someone must die in order for humanity's sins to be forgiven" imposed?

    Why couldn't God simply decide that no sacrifice was necessary? It's painted as this definition of nobility, of sacrifice because he so loved the world that he sacrificed his only to save it...blah blah.

    This makes absolutely no effing sense. He's GOD; if he wants to give humanity another shot without crucifying his own son (who is really kind of also himself anyway, but not really? ehhh?), he can do that.

    He can do whatever the fuck he wants; he's omnipotent, omniscient and timeless.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Perhaps you should read Catholicism for Dummies before making anymore comments.
    +1.

    Nobody worships Mary, and Catholics also believe that Jesus was God incarnate as man and worthy of worship. The main differences between Protestants and Catholics today are:

    1. The belief that taking communion is taking the physical body of Jesus. Catholics do, Protestants don't.
    2. The belief in a literal interpretation of the Bible. Protestants (mostly evangelicals) do, Catholics don't.

    It's not germane to the discussion at hand, but it still bugs me.
    Everybody have fun tonight. Everybody Wang Chung tonight.

    Johari
    /Nohari

  5. #35
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    Well there's also the issue concenring the authority of the Pope, can't forget that.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    As for the question of John 3:16...

    I always had to wonder why God couldn't just arbitrarily forgive humanity for its sins. Why was a sacrifice necessary? From where was the condition "someone must die in order for humanity's sins to be forgiven" imposed?

    Why couldn't God simply decide that no sacrifice was necessary? It's painted as this definition of nobility, of sacrifice because he so loved the world that he sacrificed his only to save it...blah blah.

    This makes absolutely no effing sense. He's GOD; if he wants to give humanity another shot without crucifying his own son (who is really kind of also himself anyway, but not really? ehhh?), he can do that.

    He can do whatever the fuck he wants; he's omnipotent, omniscient and timeless.
    I'm again taking this metaphorically, so it's not really an answer to your question. Historically, it's kind of important.

    People used to sacrifice to gods all the time. In fact, in many translations, "god" means "one which we sacrifice to".. yeah. This symbolic act was, basically, God's way of making the "ultimate sacrifice" so that we no longer have to sacrifice to please gods.

    Something like that.. maybe someone else can word this better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I think the higher levels of discourse on this topic acknowledge that that's a poor reason to follow God. In other word, the "serious" Christians who have progressed from the disciplinarian variation of the faith to the more positive-oriented ones usually have other reasons for obedience to their faith.
    Yeah, agreed. And, unfortunately, these seem to be the only kind of people I can actually have any sort of religious discussion with. Those who use God as the sole reason for things of the nature I described tend to use God as the sole reason for everything in an unquestioning manner

  7. #37
    Senior Member Misty_Mountain_Rose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Perhaps you should read Catholicism for Dummies before making anymore comments.
    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    +1.

    Nobody worships Mary, and Catholics also believe that Jesus was God incarnate as man and worthy of worship. The main differences between Protestants and Catholics today are:

    1. The belief that taking communion is taking the physical body of Jesus. Catholics do, Protestants don't.
    2. The belief in a literal interpretation of the Bible. Protestants (mostly evangelicals) do, Catholics don't.

    It's not germane to the discussion at hand, but it still bugs me.
    I humbly apologize for my own misunderstanding. I DID offer a disclaimer though that I could be mistaken, which I obviously was. Please don't take my ignorance personally!
    Embrace the possibilities.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by greed View Post
    Sure, which is what I was getting at with this:



    But just because some of our characteristics can "come from God," that doesn't mean that he shares our motivations, emotions, or physical characteristics. This is simply challenging the notion that God gets angry and throws temper tantrums, or that God really is a bearded Superman in the sky.

    In other words.. I take this all metaphorically to mean something along the lines of: "God made us all in His perfect, forgiving image. And it's up to you to tap into God's characteristics that lay dormant within yourself."
    man is to god what a its reflection in the puddle is to the moon

    god cannot be throwing temper tantrums...if we are to have a god that is expressed in our likeliness, it will be ideal likeliness...an equinamous image. after all, god is an entity we look upto.

    that said, i think we are on the same page.


    ...taught his students the need for direct experience of truth, as opposed to blind belief. He said that, "The true basis of religion is not belief, but intuitive experience. Intuition is the souls power of knowing God. To know what religion is really all about, one must know God.
    who did? this guy:
    Yogananda, Paramahansa

  9. #39
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
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    The god of the old testament seems like a nasty piece of work, if that is god I'll take my chances with the devil.
    Act your age not your enneagram number.

    Quinlan's Creations

  10. #40
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    Some people believe what they want to believe, and then come up with rationalizations for the belief.

    That being said, haven't we had enough Christianity bashing? Especially in the area of Catholicism, some people here really don't know what they're talking about.
    Johari Nohari

    "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. "--Niccolo Machiavelli

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