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  1. #181
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    There's still a fundamental question. Why the hell did God bother with man in the first place?
    And, another, why not make man perfect to begin with? Why this need to make him a sinner spending the rest of his life redeeming for his sin (an impossible quest)?

  2. #182
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    That's not really fair, and, kind of childish, as it's not a relevant argument, as it assumes that the way ThinkingAboutIt conceives god is wrong. It's wrong to you. It's probably quite right to a whole group of others. There wouldn't be any discussion in this thread, without theists who BELIEVE responding to those of us who don't. That's the whole point of this thread. I don't think he/she picked on YOU for not capitalizing god.

    Why would you harp on such an irrelevant issue? For the dull sake of being able to pick on someone? Does it make you feel good putting another down for irrelevant things? Joking sarcasm or not.
    Well, it's just annoying. I mean, it makes sense for someone who believes in god to capitalize the word "God." I'm fine with that. But it drives me insane to see someone capitalize a personal pronoun other than "I." It's just incorrect usage. That's not an accepted spelling convention, even among Christians. It was used in the Bible, but that doesn't make it appropriate in modern English. It would be like going around saying "thou" instead of "you."

  3. #183
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    And, another, why not make man perfect to begin with? Why this need to make him a sinner spending the rest of his life redeeming for his sin (an impossible quest)?
    Or why rate sins as sins ?

    Or Why are the sins the ones they are and not some other things ?
    (the answer on this one could be interesting)

  4. #184
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Well, it's just annoying. I mean, it makes sense for someone who believes in god to capitalize the word "God." I'm fine with that. But it drives me insane to see someone capitalize a personal pronoun other than "I." It's just incorrect usage. That's not an accepted spelling convention, even among Christians.
    How do you know this as fact?
    Many European languages capitalize nouns and pronouns used to refer to God: hallowed be Thy name, look what He hath done. Some English authors capitalize any word referring to God: the Lamb, the Almighty; some capitalize "Thy Name".
    (Wiki - Capitalization)
    Capitalization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    It was used in the Bible, but that doesn't make it appropriate in modern English. It would be like saying "thou" instead of "you."
    What's appropriate, by whose standard?

  5. #185
    Senior Member ThinkingAboutIt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    You got it right.

    But that is not all.
    On wife that is stealing from stores and billions of dead people and destroyed biosphere are not exactly the same thing.

    I simply don't inderstand why would God create a tool for wiping of milions and millions of devoted christians.

    In the case that God is behind this I must rise a question " Does he really love us as he/she/it claims? " (In the case that God exists in the first place.)
    Does the one she stole from agree with your perspective? We each see with limited and different perspectives. And, that perspective often revolves around self. God is onmiscient and sees it all, from every person, every aspect, every perspective, along with every consequence of every decision - everything.

    God does give the knowledge; He gives the knowledge and skill to heal, but that knowledge and skill can be used to kill as well - that is a result of a person or persons using their free will to make a decision and the consequence of that decision. Can God intervene? Yes. Will He? If it serves His purpose, yes. If we don't have the whole picture, or all knowledge as He does, how can we properly judge Him or His decisions?...and, should the creation judge the creator?

    With regard to death, again, different perspectives. A Christian is called to die to self while living on earth. That means, not my way, not my will, this is no longer my life, but Christ's to use for His purposes. And, a Christian knows that there is much, much better things waiting once physical life has ended, so death is nothing to fear; there are much better things to look forward to.
    Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

  6. #186
    Senior Member ThinkingAboutIt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aerithria View Post
    Did the parent create the child's wills? Their desires? Did the parent create the child's universe and give them the tools to destroy it? Because if so, then yes, you can use this analogy. However, considering that the most involvement in creating a child that parents have active control over is whether or not they use protection, this still isn't the same. If God created everything, he created the world with specific vulnerabilities and created people with the intelligence to exploit these vulnerabilities, so unless he's a complete idiot, he is accountable.
    So, if I as a parent make a decision to raise my child in a way that goes against what God said to do, I can still hold Him responsible for that? For everything that my child does regardless that it was my decision to go against Him? Then, once I am no longer responsible for the child, they too can hold God responsible for all the decisions they choose to make? No, I am responsible for my choices and actions - and the consequences of them. If we have the ability to choose, we have to take responsibility for those choices and actions.
    Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

  7. #187
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    How do you know this as fact?
    Many European languages capitalize nouns and pronouns used to refer to God: hallowed be Thy name, look what He hath done. Some English authors capitalize any word referring to God: the Lamb, the Almighty; some capitalize "Thy Name".
    (Wiki - Capitalization)
    Capitalization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Wikipedia is user-edited, and as such reflects how things are done (at best), not how they should be done. Besides, notice it says "some" authors. It's quite possible that those authors are incorrect.

    What's appropriate, by whose standard?
    I happen to know that this particular "standard" didn't even appear until a particular translation of the Bible appeared in 1971. Even the Bibles before that didn't use that capitalization.

    I can't give you an authoritative source (the Internet not having many of those), but several grammar handbooks would condemn this usage as nonstandard. I also know that it only appears in American usage (presumably due to the influence of those two new revised translations that appeared here). It makes us appear more backwards to the rest of the world than we already do.

    Even many of the Christians who use it say that they know it's technically incorrect, but insist on using the incorrect form out of "respect." That's extremely annoying, but they do it anyway. I think they do it because they know it gets to me.

    I'm sorry, this is just a pet peeve of mine. I probably should learn to reign in my "grammar nazi" tendencies. They probably make me seem a little closed-minded.

  8. #188
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    yeah when you're down into the grammar i think it's safe to say that you've picked apart christianity about as much as you possibly ever can

  9. #189
    Member Ojian's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Aerithria View Post
    God created the universe with the tools necessary for nuclear weapons. You did not create your wife, so the fact that she is capable to shoplift has nothing to do with you. However, the fact that nuclear weapons can be created has everything to do with God, for making them have the ability to exist in the first place.

    Now, had you said pet robot...
    You got it right.

    But that is not all.
    On wife that is stealing from stores and billions of dead people and destroyed biosphere are not exactly the same thing.

    I simply don't inderstand why would God create a tool for wiping of milions and millions of devoted christians.

    In the case that God is behind this I must rise a question " Does he really love us as he/she/it claims? " (In the case that God exists in the first place.)
    I'm sorry, but this argument is really weak. Just because someone creates something, and somebody else uses it for a purpose that most would consider evil, does not make the original creator responsible for how it is used. Most things made, even those attributed to God, can be used for good or bad purposes, but it doesn't mean the creator intended for them to be used that way.

    A guy can make a pen for writing. If someone comes by and uses a pen to stab someone in the eye, it's not the pen-makers fault or cause.

    One could say that God created fire. Fire can be used to keep someone warm, cook his food, melt and purify metal, etc...to a thousand uses. But if a fire is used by someone to burn down a family in their home, it's God's fault?

    God did not create nuclear weapons. He may have created the physical processes that make nuclear fission/fusion possible. But just because some men can make use of those processes for nefarious purposes does not make God responsible. The 'destructive' nuclear forces also benefit man. Without them, the sun would not burn and life would not exist on earth. Man, even though usually corrupt and destructive, has even made use of nuclear power to provide energy for many of it's citizens, and thats usually considered a good thing.

  10. #190
    Riva
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blank View Post
    Q: If god is all-knowing, then why the fuck would he have to incarnate himself as a man to know the human experience?

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