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View Poll Results: Who was Jesus?

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  • The Son of God (in the traditionally understood evangelical sense)

    43 37.72%
  • A very good and wise man.

    22 19.30%
  • Definitely more than human... but nothing else can be said with clarity.

    7 6.14%
  • A man tapped into the "ineffable Greatness" of the cosmos/universe.

    3 2.63%
  • A idiosyncratic nut.

    9 7.89%
  • It is unclear whether Jesus actually lived.

    21 18.42%
  • Jesus existed, but it's unsure whether he was human or "more than human"/godly.

    9 7.89%
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Thread: Who Was Jesus?

  1. #51
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon67 View Post
    You can't officially join the denomination until you have proven that you can successfully make a green-bean casserole with Campbell's mushroom soup in the mix and Durkee brand french-fried onions on top.

    Don't worry, it's not all that difficult. (I think the Missouri Synod split off over questions about the legitimacy of using off-brand soup and onions.)
    *nods sagely* In the Quaker tradition, the application procedure involves demonstrating that you are comfortable washing and reusing plastic picnic flatware and place settings. The more times, the better. I'm currently an 8th Dan Quaker.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
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  2. #52
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon67 View Post
    You can't officially join the denomination until you have proven that you can successfully make a green-bean casserole with Campbell's mushroom soup in the mix and Durkee brand french-fried onions on top.

    Don't worry, it's not all that difficult. (I think the Missouri Synod split off over questions about the legitimacy of using off-brand soup and onions.)
    Heathens. Sola Small Sandwicha.

  3. #53
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    Heathens. Sola Small Sandwicha.
    I'm guessing this will be the funniest post I read on this forum all week.

  4. #54
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    *nods sagely* In the Quaker tradition, the application procedure involves demonstrating that you are comfortable washing and reusing plastic picnic flatware and place settings. The more times, the better. I'm currently an 8th Dan Quaker.
    Do the Quakers have any liturgy which specifically addresses the presence or absence of chopped hard-boiled egg in potato salad? There some congregations among Reformed Baptists that allege it to be a non-issue, but these groups are widely considered by the rest of the denomination as ecumenical to the point of apostasy.

  5. #55
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon67 View Post
    Do the Quakers have any liturgy which specifically addresses the presence or absence of chopped hard-boiled egg in potato salad? There some congregations among Reformed Baptists that allege it to be a non-issue, but these groups are widely considered by the rest of the denomination as ecumenical to the point of apostasy.
    Oh good heavens yes. The canonical answer is that chopped hard-boiled egg can be served on the side for the non-vegans, but one should never assume that everyone one is cooking for eats animal matter. Therefore, the default position is vegan, with any variations on that theme to be done in a way that will accomodate all dietary choices.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  6. #56
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Leading to that next important question: WWJE?
    (What Would Jesus Eat?)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #57
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    We see a reason to believe that a man who called himself Jesus existed. We may not have empirical evidence for his corpse, yet, if we consider the way he was represented in history---it seems more like his persona belonged to an individual who walked this planet, as opposed to a character fabricated likely for the purposes of moral inspiration and political sensation.


    However, it is also likely that his personality traits may have been defaced by his followers and his enemies. To begin with, there likely has been a spark under his name, where there was a reason to believe that he was the best and the wisest of all men. Some projected divinity onto him, others were content with just being proud followers of a man of such seemingly extraordinary magnanimity.

    Drawing allegories to depict abstruse ethical truths has been a common-practice in religion, as evinced in Maimonides's Guide for the Perplexed. (Advanced Search) (Advanced Search) Hence, by those merits, it is likely that this was the case for stories of Jesus walking on water and literally resurrecting his body from the dead. The present day 'Christianity', is perhaps the most notorious for that particular sort of mischief. There wouldn't be much wrong with those 'stories' if only they were not so fervent on passing them off as literal to the point where they start going contrary to reason.

    This endeavor had little to do with spirituality and more to do with the need to exert political control. The stature of Jesus was no more than a meands to an end, as it has been thoroughly exploited by Constantine the Great.

    There is no reason to believe that those who do not share the same beliefs about the 'Christ' as Constantine are not to be called Christians. A christian is most sensibly defined as one who follows Christ, or a man named Jesus. There were many other clans with various ideas in regards to who Jesus was and what he taught. Some are hardly compatible with the way he is today represented by the church. Indeed, chicanery of hermeneutics was manifest and rife.

    There is nothing about scripture as a thing in itself that makes it holy, the only reason we consider it holy is because it was sanctified by our ancestors who likely lacked the ability to think critically and accepted whatever gave them a momentary sense of security. The Aztecs believed that sacrificing the flesh of their captured enemies in honor of their sun-god would prevent their apocalypse from taking place the night after! If their religion survived, this wouldn't be any less of a 'scripture' than Jesus saying love thy neighbor.

    One can say that their religion didn't survive and Jesus's did because his was more morally acceptable, those that are morally unacceptable tend not to survive. That is certainly a sentimental illusion. In order for a religion to survive it has to create a society where sheep are kept neatly in line so noone can subvert the religion. And of course, it has to have 1 merit, however, it has to create order in society, in order for the society to survive while attempting to preserve the religion. The Aztecs have managed to do this despite their abominable practices and roguish ethic. They would likely have lasted to this very day had it not been for the Spaniards having taken them over.


    Nonetheless, despite that we don't know much about concrete occurences of Jesus's life and specifics of his personality, it would be safe to conclude however, that he was a kind and a wise man searching for the true good in this world. Who was murdered by the brutal and the ignorant who were afraid that he'd debunk them for who they really were, and this would cause them to lose control over their community.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  8. #58
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    This endeavor had little to do with spirituality and more to do with the need to exert political control. The stature of Jesus was no more than a meands to an end, as it has been thoroughly exploited by Constantine the Great.
    I'm uncertain that one can attribute the popularity of what an outsider would call 'the Jesus cult' to Constantine's machinations. Constantine was beneficial in that he granted legal legitimacy to Christianity; but the followers of Jesus had labored under three centuries of suspicion and intermittent persecution (under Nero, Vespasian, and Domitian) prior to Constantine's rule. That isn't the path a potential proselyte chooses if he's looking for power...and while Constantine was beneficial to the church, I'm not certain how to any serious degree the church was beneficial to Constantine, at least in the ways that would have mattered to a Roman emperor.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    There is nothing about scripture as a thing in itself that makes it holy, the only reason we consider it holy is because it was sanctified by our ancestors who likely lacked the ability to think critically and accepted whatever gave them a momentary sense of security.
    I find it bewildering that you appear content to think that you and others of your generation possess critical thinking skills that previous generations lacked. That seems nonsensical to me, unless you are considering the modern reverence for scripture as literal truth to be proof of such a lack.

  9. #59
    Senior Member Crabapple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    We see a reason to believe that a man who called himself Jesus existed. We may not have empirical evidence for his corpse, yet, if we consider the way he was represented in history---it seems more like his persona belonged to an individual who walked this planet, as opposed to a character fabricated likely for the purposes of moral inspiration and political sensation.


    However, it is also likely that his personality traits may have been defaced by his followers and his enemies. To begin with, there likely has been a spark under his name, where there was a reason to believe that he was the best and the wisest of all men. Some projected divinity onto him, others were content with just being proud followers of a man of such seemingly extraordinary magnanimity.

    Drawing allegories to depict abstruse ethical truths has been a common-practice in religion, as evinced in Maimonides's Guide for the Perplexed. (Advanced Search) (Advanced Search) Hence, by those merits, it is likely that this was the case for stories of Jesus walking on water and literally resurrecting his body from the dead. The present day 'Christianity', is perhaps the most notorious for that particular sort of mischief. There wouldn't be much wrong with those 'stories' if only they were not so fervent on passing them off as literal to the point where they start going contrary to reason.

    This endeavor had little to do with spirituality and more to do with the need to exert political control. The stature of Jesus was no more than a meands to an end, as it has been thoroughly exploited by Constantine the Great.

    There is no reason to believe that those who do not share the same beliefs about the 'Christ' as Constantine are not to be called Christians. A christian is most sensibly defined as one who follows Christ, or a man named Jesus. There were many other clans with various ideas in regards to who Jesus was and what he taught. Some are hardly compatible with the way he is today represented by the church. Indeed, chicanery of hermeneutics was manifest and rife.

    There is nothing about scripture as a thing in itself that makes it holy, the only reason we consider it holy is because it was sanctified by our ancestors who likely lacked the ability to think critically and accepted whatever gave them a momentary sense of security. The Aztecs believed that sacrificing the flesh of their captured enemies in honor of their sun-god would prevent their apocalypse from taking place the night after! If their religion survived, this wouldn't be any less of a 'scripture' than Jesus saying love thy neighbor.

    One can say that their religion didn't survive and Jesus's did because his was more morally acceptable, those that are morally unacceptable tend not to survive. That is certainly a sentimental illusion. In order for a religion to survive it has to create a society where sheep are kept neatly in line so noone can subvert the religion. And of course, it has to have 1 merit, however, it has to create order in society, in order for the society to survive while attempting to preserve the religion. The Aztecs have managed to do this despite their abominable practices and roguish ethic. They would likely have lasted to this very day had it not been for the Spaniards having taken them over.


    Nonetheless, despite that we don't know much about concrete occurences of Jesus's life and specifics of his personality, it would be safe to conclude however, that he was a kind and a wise man searching for the true good in this world. Who was murdered by the brutal and the ignorant who were afraid that he'd debunk them for who they really were, and this would cause them to lose control over their community.
    Blue Wing-

    Ummmm- Could you say that in English, for densicles like me?

    I think you're saying- Jesus was probably real;
    What he was really like is uncertain, as you can't trust either what his followers said, or what his detractors said;
    The stories of what miracles he performed are probably symbolic;
    Constantine wasn't really a Christian.
    We follow Christianity because its less gross that chopping out the heart of captured enemies, like the Aztecs did;
    and Jesus was probably a good guy who was murdered by the bad guys.

    Did I get that right?

    Furthermore- Duuuhhhhh? Readin' yo postes makes me feel real stupid.....
    Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
    -- Unknown

  10. #60
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Leading to that next important question: WWJE?
    (What Would Jesus Eat?)
    I don't know, but he would have brought it in Tupperware with his name written on the bottom with a Sharpie.

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