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View Poll Results: Who was Jesus?

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  • The Son of God (in the traditionally understood evangelical sense)

    43 37.72%
  • A very good and wise man.

    22 19.30%
  • Definitely more than human... but nothing else can be said with clarity.

    7 6.14%
  • A man tapped into the "ineffable Greatness" of the cosmos/universe.

    3 2.63%
  • A idiosyncratic nut.

    9 7.89%
  • It is unclear whether Jesus actually lived.

    21 18.42%
  • Jesus existed, but it's unsure whether he was human or "more than human"/godly.

    9 7.89%
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Thread: Who Was Jesus?

  1. #41
    Mamma said knock you out Mempy's Avatar
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    Personally, I'd like to have this option added: Jesus existed, but I don't know whether he was human or godly.

    Jesus was this guy who sounds really cool but has a lot of mystery and intrigue surrounding him. Did he exist? Was he God?

    I personally think he did exist, because I vaguely remember his name being documented somewhere. I think someone brought that up in this thread too: it's historical fact that a man named Jesus existed and that he was crucified by Pilot.

    As an agnostic, or someone who doesn't know their head from their rear, I really don't know what to make of Jesus. I was raised Roman Catholic, very strictly taught all the Christian beliefs, went to catholic grade school, etc. I'd prefer to think of Jesus as the guy with the friendly smile sitting on the side of the mountain with flowery meadows surrounding him, teaching valuable information to those who sought it. I'd like to think of him as a good guy, so until other evidence contradicts this, I'll continue thinking of him this way.

    Was he God, the Holy Ghost, and everything Christians believe? Who the heck knows, and why does anyone have to be certain? Religion is taken on faith, and I respect that. You either have faith or you don't. Honestly, I think most people think of Jesus as a great guy. The real question is whether or not he was God, and if you believe he was God, I'm pretty sure that automatically makes you a Christian. Personally, I haven't rejected the idea, but I really don't have faith, so I'm not technically Christian, even though I follow a lot of Christian beliefs. But I think they're beliefs that are obviously good for society and good for yourself: be kind to your neighbors, don't cheat, kill, etc.

    And I just like to reply without reading sometimes, so if I just restated a lot of what others have said, sorry.

  2. #42
    Senior Member Crabapple's Avatar
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    No disrespect intended to Christians-As a Wiccan, I was taught to respect other people's religious beliefs- this is something I heard and found interesting. And I may get slammed but here goes....

    What i was told by this Egyptologist guy (who's brilliant, cool, and literally crazy) is that there was more than one Jesus Christ, just as there's been more than one pope. The Christ that was executed by the Romans was the last of a series of mystic priests called The Christened One's -therefore the name Christ. And the miracle's ascribed to Jesus Christ were all of the miracles performed over time by these Christened Ones, the last one included.

    The Vatican, he told me, has the information that there was more than one Christ- they're just keeping it under wraps for some vague and conspiracy theorist type reason. Then he showed me a bunch of documentation (in a book) which I don't remember, because I didn't understand it.

    This Egyptologist genuinely believes this, and other people seem to as well, being as there are books written about it.

    Interesting possibility. One that I'm not prepared to argue in defense of....

    Personally, I believe we are all the children of God, one no more than the other. I believe that miracles are possible and are more common than supposed. I do not believe in a virgin birth in humans, but some reptiles and amphibians are capable of it- but their offspring is invariably female. As a Wiccan, I believe there was a man named Jesus Christ- but he was not the Messiah. There's no such thing as a Messiah. One isn't necessary- we all undergo countless rebirths and there is no eternal punishment in Hell. Jesus was, however, a prophet, a teacher, and a healer who deserves respect- like Buddha.
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  3. #43
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crabapple View Post
    What i was told by this Egyptologist guy (who's brilliant, cool, and literally crazy) is that there was more than one Jesus Christ, just as there's been more than one pope. The Christ that was executed by the Romans was the last of a series of mystic priests called The Christened One's -therefore the name Christ. And the miracle's ascribed to Jesus Christ were all of the miracles performed over time by these Christened Ones, the last one included.

    The Vatican, he told me, has the information that there was more than one Christ- they're just keeping it under wraps for some vague and conspiracy theorist type reason. Then he showed me a bunch of documentation (in a book) which I don't remember, because I didn't understand it.

    This Egyptologist genuinely believes this, and other people seem to as well, being as there are books written about it.

    Interesting possibility. One that I'm not prepared to argue in defense of....
    All right. If you could, sources would be nice. Honestly, I've never heard of this before, and it smacks of "Dan Brown-ism" if I had to guess...

    There were a number of "Messiah figures" around Jesus' time, but I didn't think they were collectively given a name -- at least, I had never run across a category for them.

    This is one reason it's supposed that Jesus was recorded as avoiding being called a Messiah except to his intimates; he wanted to avoid being lumped into that group and treated similarly. (Note that at least in the Gospel records he kept shying away from revealing his role, silenced the demons who would have publicly proclaimed his role, etc.) Aside from some comments such as at the start of his ministry (where he read a passage from Isaiah and proclaimed himself as the fulfillment of it), he really tried to avoid being publicly proclaimed the Chosen One and Son of God, focusing more on his ministry of healing and teaching and such.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mempy View Post
    Personally, I'd like to have this option added: Jesus existed, but I don't know whether he was human or godly.
    Added.

    Jesus was this guy who sounds really cool but has a lot of mystery and intrigue surrounding him. Did he exist? Was he God? I personally think he did exist, because I vaguely remember his name being documented somewhere. I think someone brought that up in this thread too: it's historical fact that a man named Jesus existed and that he was crucified by Pilot.
    The Jewish historian Josephus had mentioned Jesus in one paragraph of text, and I think there was one external reference in passing elsewhere. At the time I had read about such things, those were the only external references people knew of. Perhaps more was uncovered later -- does anyone know? Secular references to Jesus would be preferred, as outside corroboration.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crabapple View Post
    No disrespect intended to Christians-As a Wiccan, I was taught to respect other people's religious beliefs- this is something I heard and found interesting. And I may get slammed but here goes....

    What i was told by this Egyptologist guy (who's brilliant, cool, and literally crazy) is that there was more than one Jesus Christ, just as there's been more than one pope. The Christ that was executed by the Romans was the last of a series of mystic priests called The Christened One's -therefore the name Christ. And the miracle's ascribed to Jesus Christ were all of the miracles performed over time by these Christened Ones, the last one included.

    The Vatican, he told me, has the information that there was more than one Christ- they're just keeping it under wraps for some vague and conspiracy theorist type reason. Then he showed me a bunch of documentation (in a book) which I don't remember, because I didn't understand it.

    This Egyptologist genuinely believes this, and other people seem to as well, being as there are books written about it.

    Interesting possibility. One that I'm not prepared to argue in defense of....

    Personally, I believe we are all the children of God, one no more than the other. I believe that miracles are possible and are more common than supposed. I do not believe in a virgin birth in humans, but some reptiles and amphibians are capable of it- but their offspring is invariably female. As a Wiccan, I believe there was a man named Jesus Christ- but he was not the Messiah. There's no such thing as a Messiah. One isn't necessary- we all undergo countless rebirths and there is no eternal punishment in Hell. Jesus was, however, a prophet, a teacher, and a healer who deserves respect- like Buddha.
    Initially, I found this hard to believe, etymologically speaking.

    But then I read this wikipedia article.

    Perhaps there were many Christs (Anointed Ones) and Jesus happened to be one of them for which the story with the most "legs" caught on. After that maybe all "Christ" stories were applied to Jesus.

    Who knows? Unfortunately, all sides seem to lack sources (or in the Conservative/Literal Christian case, all point to the same source, who then only gives vague references to Josephus and highly disputed archaeological evidence)

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  5. #45
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    But then I read this wikipedia article.

    Perhaps there were many Christs (Anointed Ones) and Jesus happened to be one of them for which the story with the most "legs" caught on. After that maybe all "Christ" stories were applied to Jesus.
    ?? The Wiki article never even alluded to that possibility. Are you just saying that because "Christ" means "Anointed One," this offers the possibility that the Wiccan comment could be true? That is a very fuzzy proof, at best...

    I'm not very fond of Josh McDowell as an apologist... He comes into things with a preconceived POV and just looks for evidence to support his ideas, if I had to sum up his basic approach.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    ?? The Wiki article never even alluded to that possibility. Are you just saying that because "Christ" means "Anointed One," this offers the possibility that the Wiccan comment could be true? That is a very fuzzy proof, at best...
    I think you are being too kind in terms of this being a "fuzzy proof".
    But almost anything is possible. Strong proof is needed for both impossibility and certain existence, but possible existence needs almost nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I'm not very fond of Josh McDowell as an apologist... He comes into things with a preconceived POV and just looks for evidence to support his ideas, if I had to sum up his basic approach.
    Unfortunately, even J.P. Moreland and William Lane Craig have referenced him.

    If you can point me to better sources, I would indeed be grateful.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
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    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  7. #47
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    I'm surprised by the number of people who doubt Jesus actually lived. I suppose you learn something new every day.

    Btw, what Crabapple is describing does not sound too different from the Bahai faith, although I don't believe they call them "Christs". (Not that I am an expert on the Bahai faith or anything.)Bah' Faith - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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  8. #48
    Senior Member Crabapple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    All right. If you could, sources would be nice. Honestly, I've never heard of this before, and it smacks of "Dan Brown-ism" if I had to guess...

    There were a number of "Messiah figures" around Jesus' time, but I didn't think they were collectively given a name -- at least, I had never run across a category for them.
    Well, I will try to get those sources for you- the Egyptologist is hard to get ahold of, but does come by at least once a week- I'll see what references he has.

    Are you just saying that because "Christ" means "Anointed One," this offers the possibility that the Wiccan comment could be true?
    Please note: Belief that there were christened or anointed one's was an idea that I was introduced to- it wasn't taught to me as a part of Wicca. I don't think that it's an idea that most Wiccans accept-
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  9. #49
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Sigh. Does this mean I've finally become a Lutheran???
    You can't officially join the denomination until you have proven that you can successfully make a green-bean casserole with Campbell's mushroom soup in the mix and Durkee brand french-fried onions on top.

    Don't worry, it's not all that difficult. (I think the Missouri Synod split off over questions about the legitimacy of using off-brand soup and onions.)

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon67 View Post
    You can't officially join the denomination until you have proven that you can successfully make a green-bean casserole with Campbell's mushroom soup in the mix and Durkee brand french-fried onions on top.
    I can do that! (And I also have a fetish for the dessert table.)

    Don't worry, it's not all that difficult. (I think the Missouri Synod split off over questions about the legitimacy of using off-brand soup and onions.)
    Oh, that's sooooooooo gay.

    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    I think you are being too kind in terms of this being a "fuzzy proof".
    Ha, well... I was. [But I get tired of sounding like a b*tch all the time. So I was trying for that kinder, gentler thing...]

    But almost anything is possible. Strong proof is needed for both impossibility and certain existence, but possible existence needs almost nothing.
    It's like saying, "Well, that definitely might be true!"

    Unfortunately, even J.P. Moreland and William Lane Craig have referenced him.
    Just in a sentence or two, what do you think of them / their contributions to the conversation? (Just curious.)

    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    Point taken, but if someone says they are slightly convinced that Jesus was a blueberry popsicle consumed by a family of migrating wildebeest then I am not allowed to state as fact that such a belief is not consistent with Christianity?
    Aside from the well-known reality that migrating wildebeests like strawberries, not blueberries (especially out of season), I would definitely positively say that it could very well possibly be true. (Maybe.)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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