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  1. #11
    Senior Member Sahara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lastrailway View Post
    Just a question: does Bible mentions anything against gays?Oh, ok, these are two questions actually: are Christian priests allowed to get married, anyway? I think at least orthodoxes and copts are not

    In the tale of Sodom and Gommorah I believe.
    "No one can be free of the chains that surround them"

  2. #12
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sahara View Post
    81% bigots.
    No.

    The answer with the 81% response rate is "No; such relationships are unbiblical." In other words, same-sex relationships are incompatible with the foundational text of the faith.

    That's different from saying that such relationships are inherently wrong, bad, immoral, sinful, or what have you. The case that such relationships violate a literal application of the biblical text is pretty clear, cut and dried; the question is, however, whether the Christian chooses to apply the text that way.

    If one does, it's not a matter of hating gays and lesbians, or loving gays and lesbians; the bible says what it says. If your opinion is correct, then, it's not so much the Christians that are bigoted, but the bible itself.

    One can do what many in the modern church do, and find other ways of applying scripture that make same-sex relationships valid.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Sahara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RansomedbyFire View Post
    I added to my post... sorry.... go check it out...
    I did, my answer still pretty much stands, I don't consider it biblically allowed, and I went all "bigot" without reading the "Do you think it's biblical" part lol
    "No one can be free of the chains that surround them"

  4. #14
    Senior Member Sahara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon67 View Post
    No.

    The answer with the 81% response rate is "No; such relationships are unbiblical." In other words, same-sex relationships are incompatible with the foundational text of the faith.

    That's different from saying that such relationships are inherently wrong, bad, immoral, sinful, or what have you. The case that such relationships violate a literal application of the biblical text is pretty clear, cut and dried; the question is, however, whether the Christian chooses to apply the text that way.

    If one does, it's not a matter of hating gays and lesbians, or loving gays and lesbians; the bible says what it says. If your opinion is correct, then, it's not so much the Christians that are bigoted, but the bible itself.

    One can do what many in the modern church do, and find other ways of applying scripture that make same-sex relationships valid.
    I am humbled. I went guns 'a' blazing (no Ti see).
    "No one can be free of the chains that surround them"

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sahara View Post
    In the tale of Sodom and Gommorah I believe.
    A, yes, indeed.

  6. #16
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RansomedbyFire View Post
    Then, how can you say it's Biblical?
    Well, if I were to argue....

    You can count the number of verses dealing with homosexuality on one hand.

    Then you get into what "homosexuality" meant at that time, which dealt more with prostitution and pederasty and religious paganism (when you look at the OT, for the latter) -- those were the images conjured by that word. I think in the text you mention, it specifically referred to the "top" and the "bottom" in religious prostitution, as the connotation went.

    The Sodom and Gamorah incident was about inhospitality and gang-rape of innocent strangers, not homosexuals, as per a reference to inhospitality in the NT as well. (Similar to how homosexuality in prison is more about violence and control.)

    And you could look at the OT law as developed by Israel to be a contrast to the pagan nations and as part of sexual indulgence and also joining two things that are not alike. Note that lesbianism is not addressed in the myriad of examples. And many other things that are "unlike" are now indulged in by Christians and others without regard to the text.

    Paul makes an argument based on what is "natural" but assumes homosexuality in nature as to be what is unnatural. He appeals to the "common sense" of what people might see as natural, when talking to the Romans.

    I don't know, but those are the sort of arguments I've seen.

    So, along with somewhat of what Oberon is saying, I suppose the final arbitrator here to be how exactly one views the Bible.
    Is it God writing supernaturally through people?
    Is it a book compiling people's experiences with God?
    Is it a book that details one nation's view of what it meant to follow God, in their time and place?

    Many of the debates seem to occur because the two sides arguing have a different view of the origin and evolution of the Bible as a document.

    Note that this makes things even more heated, because both sides are claiming the Bible as "their own" and saying other interpretations are invalid. The sides are wrestling over ownership of the text and disenfranchising people who disagree. No wonder it gets so heated.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #17

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    Oh, that wasn't just for you, just for anyone who missed the edits.
    By the way, I'm the girl in the picture, lol.... happily married though, so don't even...

  8. #18
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sahara View Post
    I am humbled. I went guns 'a' blazing (no Ti see).
    Sorry...I didn't mean to pile on. =]

  9. #19
    Senior Member reason's Avatar
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    100% of people say that homosexual relationships are unheterosexual
    Bigots!
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Sahara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RansomedbyFire View Post
    Oh, that wasn't just for you, just for anyone who missed the edits.
    Sorry, for a second there I thought the world revolved around me lol
    "No one can be free of the chains that surround them"

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