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  1. #1
    Senior Member Into It's Avatar
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    Default I awoke from a dream...

    So, this thread is about a dream I awoke to this morning.
    Four philosophical questions were woven into it.


    Are you willing to take responsibility for the lives of others?

    A flood, a Great Flood, was impending, and it was to cover the earth entirely, killing all people. Strangely, the protocol for this event was to pack everyone into this building that was made for this event. The strange thing about it is that this building probably would not be able to withstand the power of the flood. People were ranked by certain criteria, and somehow, my white friends and I were the most desireable caucasions to save (go figure.) The building was separated by tiers, and those on the lower tiers would almost surely die, and the higher the tiers were, the more likely the gates for that floor would hold, and the people would survive. Among my friends, I was democratically chosen to be the leader for any important decisions that would have to be made, which would include choosing who, if any of them, would be sacrificed if necessary. I know a lot of NT's will say..."Hmm, cool." To me, though, I would almost be unwilling to take this kind of responsibility even if I knew I was the most qualified. I probably would take it though, if only to save myself, which says right there that I'm probably not the man for the job. I was handed a scepter of sorts, made of bread, and we ascended the stairs to the top tier, passing crowds of shoving, yelling people visible through small windows in the walls of each level we passed.


    Whose world is this?

    We came the relatively small room at the top after passing up all the people deemed less desirable than me somehow. It was a special room, held on stilts above the rest of the building. As we entered, I noticed that groups of people were separated by race. Behind me, the door sealed. I thought to myself, "Yes, these groups of friends must have been chosen because they were of different races, but it is peculiar, since this is the end of the world and all, that race is of any importance anyway. If countries no longer exist, why should race matter? Should they be saved for the sake of history? So that the tribes can reproduce among themselves to maintain these bloodlines? What good has the classification of race done for the world? I say, it would be in our best interest in this situation to pollute the bloodlines as quickly as possible. There are enough logical reasons to separate ourselves from others - there need not be a visual and arbitrary one. At once, I cut to the chase, saying, "how many of us are there, and how much food do we have? If we split it equally, will there be enough for us to survive this?" An African American replied sharply, "Who said this place was democratic? Who says your scepter matters anymore?" And they, who were the only one of the groups with weapons, ate quickly as if they were starved, while a few of them stood with swords and spears, guarding the rest as they ate. (Fantastic - my subconscious thinks of blacks as armed and dangerous. I should become a cop.) It was unnerving to see the rest of the races sticking to themselves, cowering in small groups. They were guilty of the same sick logic that the blacks were, and for the time being, it appeared that my friends and I were too. Race wouldn't matter then, and it shouldn't matter now. After it was clear that the food was being hoarded by armed men, all of my friends turned to me immediately, all begging, (luckily non-violently) for me to break my staff apart and feed them pieces of it. It was a small staff, and if I fed them equally, there would be only a miniscule portion for each mouth.


    How do you spend your last moments?

    One of the people who was present in my small group of friends was the lady with the flower in 'Heart's' avatar. I thought of her in the same way I think of Heart, that is, I had the same 'mental image' of her qualities, and so I recognized her. It is unusual though, that Heart was an ISFJ in my dream. She was also royalty, which is probably the reason that I was chosen to survive, which is probably the reason that she was prevalent in this dream.

    Over time, people began to starve, and I broke apart my staff, relinquishing all authority in doing so (one member of each race had a similar staff). I considered the grim notion of cannibalism with an uncertain mind. One at a time, we began to die of starvation. Every once in a while, the room would shift, as if its foundations were not steady. Among the last 8 or so living people in the room were me, heart, and her husband. The water was apparently gone at this point; we had waited it out. We felt the foundation shift, and then the whole room began to rock. We felt that we all may have only moments to live. The tension was unbearable, and we were frightened. People began to argue and yell. They became angry. The room shifted again, and we began to fall. We plummeted, and I estimated that it would take ten to fifteen seconds to hit the ground. "This is the end of us," I said. "How will we spend it?" Someone said something religious, but it only applied to him and his religion. Heart said, "Let's be at peace with ourselves and each other." It was probably the best idea we were going to get within the next few seconds, and everyone must have agreed, because we all became silent. I felt pleasant accepting this philosophy. It seemed like everyone around me felt pleasant as well. The room hit the floor, and everyone died, except for Heart, her husband, and me, who landed on some pillows/beds/beanbags that had landed in a very convenient place.


    Why is tradition honored before it is questioned?

    We ate berries and were fine for a short while. The land we lived on was very pretty, like a dream . Eventually, Heart realized that she had become pregnant, and her spirits lifted, because her royal family line would continue (as if that mattered anymore). She named her son after its father, (whose name I don't remember), and spoke to me about the tradition that her particular royal family did. It involved teaching the First Borns a series of morals that were and in part misogynistic. A bear came soon after the child's birth, and it was going to attack us. Her husband devised a plan where I would distract the bear, and he would kill it with the spear that he had fashioned but not yet used. It would put him in the most danger, and I probably should have chosen their family over my own life, but like I said, regretably, I am a "save myself" kind of guy. The plan worked, and he was able to thrust his spear into the bear. The fight did not end there, though, and Heart's husband was killed in the struggle. The bear limped off a bit and died afterward. Heart spent time grieving. When the boy became 6 or 7, he started disrespecting his mother, and I urged her to discontinue teaching the boy this doctrine that the family had held in such high esteem. She had come from a long line of great thinkers, and they came up with their version of the truth somewhere along the line, and her family had respected it ever since. (There is no doubt that this part of the dream came from all the Schopenhauer I've been reading recently!) I started off requesting politely that she leave all that "tradition" behind her because we had the chance to start anew. She could mend and improve her forefathers' work herself. Eventually, seeing the maliciousness of her child, in such contrast to her own temperament, I began to view her teachings as dangerous, and I became more forceful. Her argument was always the same. "It's the way it has always been, and that is why I must respect it. Who am I to question this doctrine that has been here so many hundreds of years?" Her son grew to the age of 18 or so and murdered her. He took her position on the throne (whatever that means) and felt no remorse, because he had been taught from such a young age, he too accepted these abhorrent teachings.

    If you have any comments or responses to any of these four questions, in any context, I look forward to reading them.
    An inscription above the gate to Hell:
    "Eternal Love also created me"

  2. #2
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    My first thought reading this is that my avatar really sort of embodies an archetype of the feminine. She's young, lovely and it's springtime. Virginity, the promise of fertility.

    I'll think on the rest of it and give my thoughts.

    The painting is called the "Flower picker"

    Flowers also a symbol of fertility and spring, renewal, rebirth. The 18 year old killing his mother, renewal...removing the old, making room for renewal, growth....definately a theme there.


    Edit: My impression is that this dream is very personal, it's about your own internal being, your values, your "traditions" or pre-concieved notions of the world. (foundations, the ground beneath your feet), all the people in this dream are parts of your own internal being, the traditions are your value systems, the "bloodlines" are the roots of that value system?

    Death to old ways of seeing and thinking about the world. Your anima is resisting this? Or your anima is in danger of being extinguished from certain emerging parts of you which are being taught misogynistic morals in our culture? That part is unclear.

    I've seen some dream books that say when non-Blacks dream of Blacks it may relate to the original human, the first humans, something fundamental to self. I've seen the concept of the Oversoul personified in dreams as a Black king or queen. So you're characterization in the dream may have more to do with these parts of yourself fighting change more than any subconscious belief that Blacks in waking life are dangerous.

    The royalty aspect could be relating to your highest levels of self. The message is clear this is fundamentally profound message to you.

  3. #3
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Interesting dream. Yours tend to be a bit deeper than mine on an emotional level. Mine always seem to be about involve arguing with people, fighting people, running away, and sneaking around.

    You did ask heart if it was okay to post this before mentioning her in your dream, right? She seems okay with it, anyway, so I guess it's fine either way at this point.

    Anyway, I think the theme of the dream is that you want to develop leadership qualities in case you find yourself in a situation similar to the one in the dream. But I really have no idea, it could be something more personal that I can't see.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Into It's Avatar
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    Actually, I didn't ask heart. I thought about it, but I also thought it would be funnier this way. I really don't have leadership qualities, unless everyone's in a good mood and on my side, that is, I'm a great host, but not leader. So that's an interesting observation.
    An inscription above the gate to Hell:
    "Eternal Love also created me"

  5. #5
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    I hope it goes without saying that my impression of your dream are just that, I am not trying to say I know anything, anything at all.

  6. #6
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Into It View Post
    Actually, I didn't ask heart. I thought about it, but I also thought it would be funnier this way. I really don't have leadership qualities, unless everyone's in a good mood and on my side, that is, I'm a great host, but not leader. So that's an interesting observation.
    Yeah. The reason is because everything that happened in the dream called on your leadership qualities, and a better outcome would have happened at almost any turn if you had demonstrated such qualities. I'm not really criticizing you, but just noticing a pattern. I doubt I would have done any better, but here's what I saw:

    For instance, with the food. If you had stood up to the threat and organized people against it, made an example of the people who resisted, shown that you wouldn't tolerate a lack of teamwork or people behaving selfishly (or at least taken some risks to seize food for your own group), then you probably could have gotten the food distributed more fairly. But instead, you symbolically sacrificed your leadership in order to salvage the situation in a smaller, more temporary way for a smaller number of people. And ironically, you were forced to choose in a far more arbitrary way who would live and who would die (by deciding who to feed pieces of your staff to), because you avoided confronting the first scenario where you would have had to sacrifice some people.

    You recognized your oversight in the situation with the bear, because it made you feel guilty. Your next oversight was in not putting more pressure on heart to avoid the teachings earlier in time. You saw the consequences, but you kept letting it slide until it was too late.

    So, in a sense, everything that went wrong in the dream, happened because you were too flexible and willing to "go with the flow," and accept a lesser outcome, rather than take charge of things and push for a better outcome.

    Does that make sense?

  7. #7
    Senior Member Into It's Avatar
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    No no, you know your stuff. I'm printing out your analysis and posting it above my bed.

    However, I do think that your avatar (and I think you used to have a different but similar avatar) reflects the same image visually that you present verbally. That's neat.
    An inscription above the gate to Hell:
    "Eternal Love also created me"

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Yeah. The reason is because everything that happened in the dream called on your leadership qualities, and a better outcome would have happened at almost any turn if you had demonstrated such qualities. I'm not really criticizing you, but just noticing a pattern. I doubt I would have done any better, but here's what I saw:

    For instance, with the food. If you had stood up to the threat and organized people against it, made an example of the people who resisted, shown that you wouldn't tolerate a lack of teamwork or people behaving selfishly (or at least taken some risks to seize food for your own group), then you probably could have gotten the food distributed more fairly. But instead, you symbolically sacrificed your leadership in order to salvage the situation in a smaller, more temporary way for a smaller number of people. And ironically, you were forced to choose in a far more arbitrary way who would live and who would die (by deciding who to feed pieces of your staff to), because you avoided confronting the first scenario where you would have had to sacrifice some people.

    You recognized your oversight in the situation with the bear, because it made you feel guilty. Your next oversight was in not putting more pressure on heart to avoid the teachings earlier in time. You saw the consequences, but you kept letting it slide until it was too late.

    So, in a sense, everything that went wrong in the dream, happened because you were too flexible and willing to "go with the flow," and accept a lesser outcome, rather than take charge of things and push for a better outcome.

    Does that make sense?
    Wow, it does make perfect sense. And I overlooked that pattern completely. Leave it to the INFJ to clarify these sorts of things, I have found Ni's to have the outstanding quality of breaking things down into individual parts and then demonstrating that there are links between these parts.
    An inscription above the gate to Hell:
    "Eternal Love also created me"

  9. #9
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Into It View Post
    Wow, it does make perfect sense. And I overlooked that pattern completely. Leave it to the INFJ to clarify these sorts of things, I have found Ni's to have the outstanding quality of breaking things down into individual parts and then demonstrating that there are links between these parts.
    Thanks. I'm glad I made sense.

    Would you mind reading one of my dreams? Just curious if Ne might be a helpful perspective for an Ni dream.

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...took-mall.html

  10. #10
    Senior Member Into It's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Thanks. I'm glad I made sense.

    Would you mind reading one of my dreams? Just curious if Ne might be a helpful perspective for an Ni dream.

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...took-mall.html
    Yes sir! You're the second person to send me a dream today. I'm flattered.
    An inscription above the gate to Hell:
    "Eternal Love also created me"

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