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  1. #31
    Member ADISCIPLE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by juggernaut View Post
    So I'm not exactly clear on what god designates here. Is this some form of the teleological argument? I'm having a little trouble finding the "god" in this passage. Is god in the stuff of life or is god the stuff of life? Is it purpose? If so, how do you know you're evaluating it correctly?

    Also how do you know that our "disobedience" isn't a part of the order? In evolutionary terms, it seems obvious that this supposed disobedience has worked quite well for us.
    Someone who believes in God, as myself, typically believe in intelligent design. I am proposing that the being that created the universe, its mark is in everything, because nothing would exist without it. Everythings existence, is part God, everything in its entirety is God. The rules apply, and order is in place.

    I disagree that everything has worked out well for us, even in evolutionary terms. Knowledge is our disobedience, its alter-ego is confusion. The more knowledge we gain, the less we truly understand. I would fear the next stage of evolution would have even more of this problem, not solve it.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    God is a messy word though, it comes with all sorts of connotations that existence and everything don't. Isn't existence and everything clearer use of language, without all the hellfire and brimstone connotations?
    I think certain other connotations go along with 'god'. Emotional connections and significance. So to call something not typically known as god, god, is to try to pass all those emotions and connections people have with the more typical concept of god, on to whatever they are switching the name to mean.

  3. #33
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erm View Post
    I think certain other connotations go along with 'god'. Emotional connections and significance. So to call something not typically known as god, god, is to try to pass all those emotions and connections people have with the more typical concept of god, on to whatever they are switching the name to mean.
    Isn't it possible to feel emotional connections to 'everything' or 'existence'? they are already as significant as anything can be.
    Act your age not your enneagram number.

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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    Isn't it possible to feel emotional connections to 'everything' or 'existence'? they are already as significant as anything can be.
    Yes, they just don't have the same background.

    I imagine it's similar to how insults are purely descriptive, yet they have more emotional connections than other terms.

    It sort of leads to extra description if you call, say, the universe 'god'. Makes it seem more mystical and whatnot, and expresses the speaker's feelings on the matter more clearly.

    At least, it does for me.

    'God' might contain a bit of extra pure description in it as well. At least, calling the universe 'god', makes me think the person who stated it does not believe in anthropomorphism.

  5. #35
    Junior Member Friend's Avatar
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    Remember when you were a little kid and you first discovered a box of dominos in your grandma's cabinet? You took the dominos out and started stacking them on end until you made a huge line of dominos. Then when you were ready you pushed that first domino over so it would hit the next one, and the next one, and you would watch the chain reaction.
    Picture each domino as a day in history. Each domino counts for a day and there are millions of them. According to the laws of physics and non-infinite regression, each movement among the physical realm requires a "mover" or "energy" to transfer energy. However it is unfathomable that the first domino, meaning the first day, was moved all by itself. But nothing existed before it in the physical realm, therefore the only explaination is supernatural, beyond physical, and an outside "mover" which tipped that first domino. History has called this "God".
    "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." J. Krishnamurti

  6. #36
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    i think of it like this. Space is endless. It's sais that if you go in one direction into space, you'll return from the opposite direction. This is impossible. i believe one just keeps going in that same direction without end. How did all this 'stuff' contained within materialize. Somethins gotta be up with that.
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

  7. #37
    Senior Member ENFJ_Catholic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Friend View Post
    Remember when you were a little kid and you first discovered a box of dominos in your grandma's cabinet? You took the dominos out and started stacking them on end until you made a huge line of dominos. Then when you were ready you pushed that first domino over so it would hit the next one, and the next one, and you would watch the chain reaction.
    Picture each domino as a day in history. Each domino counts for a day and there are millions of them. According to the laws of physics and non-infinite regression, each movement among the physical realm requires a "mover" or "energy" to transfer energy. However it is unfathomable that the first domino, meaning the first day, was moved all by itself. But nothing existed before it in the physical realm, therefore the only explaination is supernatural, beyond physical, and an outside "mover" which tipped that first domino. History has called this "God".
    Welcome, Friend! A very good first post...welcome to the forum.

    Your post was true to ENFJ form, including the delievery of the message; it explains in part what I believe, too. Thanks for sharing.
    "In the end it is not a matter of reason; it is a matter of love." - St. Thomas More

  8. #38
    Member ADISCIPLE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Friend View Post
    Remember when you were a little kid and you first discovered a box of dominos in your grandma's cabinet? You took the dominos out and started stacking them on end until you made a huge line of dominos. Then when you were ready you pushed that first domino over so it would hit the next one, and the next one, and you would watch the chain reaction.
    Picture each domino as a day in history. Each domino counts for a day and there are millions of them. According to the laws of physics and non-infinite regression, each movement among the physical realm requires a "mover" or "energy" to transfer energy. However it is unfathomable that the first domino, meaning the first day, was moved all by itself. But nothing existed before it in the physical realm, therefore the only explaination is supernatural, beyond physical, and an outside "mover" which tipped that first domino. History has called this "God".
    Nice.

  9. #39
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    Actually, it was Aristotle. But, hey, close enough.

  10. #40
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    Even if everyone had the same general understanding of God, which perhaps they do to some extent, we would not be able to translate the whole being into understandable language, or language at all for that matter. However, I think we can offer glimpses of God and convey our partial understandings limited by human potential.

    I'm not a theologian or a guru, but here is my effort to convey what I understand about God, though there is no way I could do Justice with it.

    First, God is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent. He exists outside of time and space, but is active in the universe, especially with humans.

    God created the universe, in one way or another, with or without the big bang, with or without evolution. I happen to believe in both.
    Because He exists outside of time and space, he has knowledge of the past, present, and future, even before it passes--here you see the futility of trying to explain Him.

    God is also loving and benevolent. He is the true good.

    At some point after the creation of the universe, human beings came into existence, which God purposefully created in His image and likeness. This does not mean God has arms and legs, as God is outside of space, but by looking at ourselves, we can achieve a glimpse of the identity of God. God is the Being who gave humans souls, which mimic God, and seek completeness by being in union with Him.

    God plays an active role in the lives of people through various means because He created us for a purpose and wants us to choose to pursue union with Him.

    This is a basic idea of the God of at least Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, and perhaps other religions I am not aware of.

    My understanding of God goes further than this and more in depth in regards to His relation with people, but all this is more specific to my religion, and may diverge from others' perception of Him. If you are interested I'd be happy to share more details.
    Johari Nohari

    "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. "--Niccolo Machiavelli

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