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  1. #91
    Senior Member Grayscale's Avatar
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    my thoughts--most people have already decided whether they believe God exists emotionally, discussions like this are only a matter of reinforcing that decision in their rational mind. high rational intelligence can easily lead to pride, or believing that because we know relatively more than other humans that we know everything. it is this rejection of the notion that we aren't to be omniscient or omnipotent that causes us to close our minds to other perspectives or information, true or false as it may be... we desire to know everything, it follows that that is what we would tell ourselves. however, if we hypothetically consider the existence of an omniscient and omnipresent being, wouldn't our place, as limited in our knowledge and abilities, be below such a being? and yet, we discuss the existence or lack thereof with other humans, our equals, so that such a thing can be considered comfortably in a way we can control and understand. it's foolish to think the thoughts of you or I are anything but entirely inconsequential to reality, truth, the existince or non-existence of an omni-being. that is why approaching the issue from an entirely rational standpoint will come up short, with nothing to say conclusively one way or another. im aware this is a difficult suggestion to swallow, to accept our limitations.

    let's say we are detectives arriving at the scene of a murder... do we have to know the perpatrator's hair color, the model of the firearm, the exact time of arrival to say whether the body in the middle of the floor means someone was killed? if we put aside our personal desires, whether they are for God to exist or not, wouldnt the aftereffects still remain in the present without a need for empirical proof of how? perhaps we are looking in the wrong place... yes, the creation of earth and space, fossils and how life developed, and modern physics can explain portions of the details of how we are, but this is a binary question, a question of the obvious, and the answer should be equally so obvious.

    so why is it not so obvious to us? this is why it is a question of emotion, of human nature and our motives first before it is a question to be approached rationally. for us to ask "is there a God?" is presumptuous to such an extent that only humans could be, it would be more enlightening to ask what we are doing now and why. so to answer the question of whether God exists, i have instead another question: why do you think you want to know? because that is one that would all have the answer to.

  2. #92
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    Just a quick thing, before I run off for a bit... I honestly appreciate the time and energy you all have put into your responses. I may not understand or agree with most of them, but I do like getting real feedback on this topic. Thank you.

  3. #93
    Senior Member Grayscale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by juggernaut View Post
    Thank you.
    mizz crankypants my ass!

  4. #94
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    To me, God is just a word. Nothing more, nothing less.
    Personally, I don't believe in any sort deity,spirit, guiding force, or supernatural phenomenon. From what I've seen and experienced, the universe is a place where very strange things happen for no adequate or obvious reasons. I don't see any reason to believe that anything is in control of the universe, so i don't.

    And I'm happy with that, because it lets decide my own path and choose my future. Any meaning that life has for me is self-invested. I choose to invest meaning in a meaningless world. and nothing could make me happier.

  5. #95
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    To me, God is just a word. Nothing more, nothing less.
    Personally, I don't believe in any sort deity,spirit, guiding force, or supernatural phenomenon. From what I've seen and experienced, the universe is a place where very strange things happen for no adequate or obvious reasons. I don't see any reason to believe that anything is in control of the universe, so i don't.

    And I'm happy with that, because it lets decide my own path and choose my future. Any meaning that life has for me is self-invested. I choose to invest meaning in a meaningless world. and nothing could make me happier.

  6. #96
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    i believe that we are all a part of him and that we are made in his image. i believe that he is true doer and nothing would exist unless he didnt meant it to. i believe that reality is nothing but a delusion that god put us here to help us understand and mature. mature in order to dwell deep into our own consciousness and make ourselves able to comprehend the great power of god and the spirit and the intuition that make up the very atoms of this universe.

    i believe that he is the one and the only true source of energy. all science has done is realize and, in some cases, harness that energy as seen fit in humans' current state.

    i believe in god. i believe in human will. i believe that through self-realization, i can find god. all i gotta do is look deep enough.

    i think evolution will eventually prove the existence of god...but when that happens, evolution, being the fairly abstract concept it is, will be given the credit for all that happens...after all, god wont exactly wave his hand and go "come my children"...wheres the fun in that

    if you want to do some homework, there is an excellent book. "Autobiography of a Yogi" - Paramahansa Yogananda.

    Autobiography of a Yogi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Last edited by thisGuy; 06-10-2009 at 01:15 PM. Reason: incomprehensible grammar

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grayscale View Post
    let's say we are detectives arriving at the scene of a murder... do we have to know the perpatrator's hair color, the model of the firearm, the exact time of arrival to say whether the body in the middle of the floor means someone was killed?
    I think that's a very good analogy; however, I would like to point out that you've already provided a reason that the body was there for a reason. In a logical argument it's something like:

    If A, then B.

    I think an analogy which would match reality better would be that there is a dead body. You don't know how or why the person died, but your job is to figure it out.

    In the first example, you're indirectly arguing that there is tangible proof that (If God exists, he would be the murderer, the body would represent reality or something of the sort...) a person murdered another person, creating the body. In the second example, my example, which I think follows the human situation, it's that we see the evidence of a body (reality,) and we have to discover the cause of that body's existence, whether it be from murder (God) or natural causes (Big Bang, a simulation, whatever...)

    NOTE: I'm not saying that God is a murderer. It's just a metaphor.
    Ti = 19 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Te = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ne = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fi = 15 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Si = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ni = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Se = 11[][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fe = 0

    -----------------
    Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
    Man got to sit and wonder why, why, why;
    Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
    Man got to tell himself he understand

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