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  1. #31
    Member ADISCIPLE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyward View Post
    I would want to know. Then I can become buddhist without any conscious baggage
    HAha so true!

  2. #32
    Senior Member therationaledge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Take Five View Post
    This is like the "can God create a rock so heavy he can't move it?" question.
    No it isn't. That one is a paradox, this is a hypothetical.
    "You would lose your money," Sherlock Holmes remarked calmly. "As for the article I wrote it myself."

    "You!"

    "Yes, I have a turn both for observation and for deduction. The theories which I have expressed there, and which appear to you to be so chimerical are really extremely practical -- so practical that I depend upon them for my bread and cheese."

  3. #33
    Junior Member Meatbot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ENFJ_Catholic View Post
    Meatbot, could you explain how omnipotence and omniscience cannot coexist? Is this the "grounding" exception? Is this a point to where we can even answer whether time's outcomes can be changed or new truths be discovered? Can we disprove time travel while we're at it, then? Is everything a static world? No...it's an evolving one. This is why the open world assumption is far superior to the all-or-nothing of the closed world view.
    If you are omniscient, you KNOW what you will do tomorrow. That means that you can't change you're mind and do something else. If you can't change your mind, you aren't omnipotent. If you could change your mind, then you were wrong earlier when you thought you knew what you'd do - and then you wouldn't be omniscient. They are self-contradictory.

    In order for the a given definition of god to be possible, you'd have to remove so much of his power as to make him not worthy of the title. He'd just be a really powerful but limited being.

    You can disprove time travel if you can show the definition to be self-contradictory. But as far as I know that has never been done.

    I would say you don't have enough information to determine whether the universe is static or evolving. It may just appear to be evolving.

  4. #34
    Senior Member riel's Avatar
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    Yup, I want to know. Prove your point.
    I'm a Phlegmatic-Melancholy.

  5. #35
    Senior Member riel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADISCIPLE View Post
    ..darastically change their lifestyle and would send them into an downward spiral of confusion.
    I've been through this once. I was afraid to question my belief because I'm afraid that doing so is a sin(now that I see it, it seems quite ridiculous).
    I'm a Phlegmatic-Melancholy.

  6. #36

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    I don't find the answer of "no" to be surprising at all. The fact that one is religious at all indicates that one does not necessarily have omniscience at the top of their hierarchy of needs. People are religious because God plays a role in their life and fills a need. If a religious person knew God did not exist and it caused a major depression and a sudden drop in the quality of his life, why would he want that? I understand that some people hold the need to expose truth as paramount over everything else, but many people hold a more nuanced view of the role of truth.

    For instance, would you want to know that your father who you love is not your real father? Would you want someone to tell you that Santa Claus was not real when you were five years old? These are similar questions to me, and the answers are anything but universal. Not all truths are useful truths.
    Everybody have fun tonight. Everybody Wang Chung tonight.

    Johari
    /Nohari

  7. #37
    Senior Member Feops's Avatar
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    I'm not a believer, but if someone posed the opposite question to me, the ability TO prove existance with no doubt whatsoever left in my mind, I would like to hear it. I'll admit I may experience a little buyer's remorse at having the mystery taken away but that would be a small cost.

    I may be rather vocally pro-atheist, but I'm not opposed to the notion of God.


    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    I don't find the answer of "no" to be surprising at all. The fact that one is religious at all indicates that one does not necessarily have omniscience at the top of their hierarchy of needs. People are religious because God plays a role in their life and fills a need. If a religious person knew God did not exist and it caused a major depression and a sudden drop in the quality of his life, why would he want that? I understand that some people hold the need to expose truth as paramount over everything else, but many people hold a more nuanced view of the role of truth.
    I'd say this is perhaps the number one reason why religious folks will tend to dismiss that which science can prove, if findings infringe upon their beliefs while providing little material benefit. Evolution for example is fairly easy to dismiss as the benefit of accepting it is slim to none, but the penalty of shifting ones values carries a cost.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Grayscale's Avatar
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    how did i guess who made this thread...

  9. #39
    Senior Member ENFJ_Catholic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meatbot View Post
    If you are omniscient, you KNOW what you will do tomorrow. That means that you can't change you're mind and do something else. If you can't change your mind, you aren't omnipotent. If you could change your mind, then you were wrong earlier when you thought you knew what you'd do - and then you wouldn't be omniscient. They are self-contradictory.

    In order for the a given definition of god to be possible, you'd have to remove so much of his power as to make him not worthy of the title. He'd just be a really powerful but limited being.

    You can disprove time travel if you can show the definition to be self-contradictory. But as far as I know that has never been done.

    I would say you don't have enough information to determine whether the universe is static or evolving. It may just appear to be evolving.
    Thanks for the clarification, and the acknowledgement of an open world view of things.
    "In the end it is not a matter of reason; it is a matter of love." - St. Thomas More

  10. #40
    Senior Member Into It's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grayscale View Post
    how did i guess who made this thread...

    Was it the screen name that was posted beneath the thread's link?

    No, that could not have been it.

    You must know more about me than I do about you...
    An inscription above the gate to Hell:
    "Eternal Love also created me"

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