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  1. #61
    Senior Member Into It's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    Yes they were bad as I did not exist in them. I understand we do not see eye to eye but I get the feeling you're just trying to mock me now. I clearly said that non existance is not a form of neutrality to me. It's clear in every one of my posts. In how many words should I say that anything is prefered for me over nothing. No matter what that anything is. Because nothing gets me nowhere, nothing gives me jack all.

    I can say it in about 1000 more ways if I could be arsed. :P
    No, that is not the case. That is definitely not the way things are. I am pushing it because I want to understand fully, but as I said in my post earlier, and as you just said, we simply do not see eye to eye on this matter and that will not change. I'll leave it here, but I meant no harm.
    An inscription above the gate to Hell:
    "Eternal Love also created me"

  2. #62
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    No harm done, just don't know a more clear way of saying it than I already did.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  3. #63
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    As I understand it Adler and Jung were colleagues and perhaps disciples of Freud and separated from him on some theories but both individuals were basically Freudian in their fundamental theories.

    Jung and Adler recognized from the beginning that Freud was wrong in his dogmatic insistence regarding wo/man’s innate instincts of sexuality and aggression; however, they also recognized that Freud had correctly diagnosed and emphasized wo/man’s creatureliness.

    Freud “reflected the true intuitions of genius, even though the particular intellectual counter-part of that emotion—the sexual theory—proved to be wrong. Man’s body was a “curse of fate”, and culture was built upon repression—not because man was a seeker only of sexuality, of pleasure, of life and expansiveness, as Freud thought, but because man was also primarily an avoider of death.”

    Not sexuality, as Freud theorized, but the consciousness of death is the primary repression. Freud recognized the curse early and dedicated his life toward exposing it. However, he missed the correct scientific fact that was the source of the curse; this being the repression upon which society is constructed.

    Quote from Escape from Evil by Ernest Becker

  4. #64
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    what's worse than death?
    suffering.

  5. #65
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    Torture.

  6. #66
    Member Saffronsocks's Avatar
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    To both Heart and Into It regarding fasting/medical suffering/magical thinking/monks ::

    I'm going to have to be a (possibly) over-optimistic NF who's never experienced real pain here, and say that I do believe any physical suffering CAN be used to strengthen oneself, at least spiritually. And a stronger spirit should have nothing to fear from death, by virtue of, I dunno... calm enlightenment in the face of things that don't exist (ie: our own sentience doesn't really exist anyway). Death isn't anything at all, no different from what is right now... at least according to certain philosophies that can be backed up by 1000s of years of strangely happy people.

    From another tack - I appreciate death as a motivator, and I think there are plenty of worse motivators out there. Heck, searching for eternal life is just a slippery road to campy mustache-twirling villainy, am I right? If there wasn't the flatly terrifying prospect of the inevitable end... life wouldn't be anything close to as spicy or appreciable.

    Seriously though (to step on the ground for a moment). Torture would be worse, that's what it's designed to be. Anyone ever read that Harlan Ellison short story I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream? THAT.

  7. #67
    Alexander the Terrible yenom's Avatar
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    Eternal pain, powerlessness. Mental suffering and being overwhelmed.

    Lost of self, being stuck into a black hole. Stuck in a mental institution when you are sane.

    There are alot of experiences that are worst than death. Most of them have to do with pain. Death is nothing without pain.
    The fear of poverty turns people into slaves of money.

    "In this Caesar there are many Mariuses"~Sulla

    Conquer your inner demons first before you conquer the world.

  8. #68
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    For me, no.

    Death for me is to cease existing. Anything existing is better than death.

    Now, I have never been tortured so this is hypothetical. But I think I would be able to take any form of non lethal torture without wishing to die. I would even prefer eternal suffering over the notion of not existing.

    As long as I have awareness and self consciousness that is. Not having that is the same as death to me.
    Is it that why we have these ghosts hovering around?
    They are people who refuse to die?
    And when they finally understand it is better to die they dissipate?

  9. #69
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    It's the dying that scares me, not the death.
    Without death, dying is just pain, which can be endured and eventually alleviated or eliminated.

    I guess perpetual physical or mental agony without (theoretically) any hope of change is worse than death (dying is merely a short-term version of that)-and even then, I'm not so sure. Otherwise, death is worse than everything else, as it drastically reduces the amount of hope while simultaneously increasing the amount of dread in one's life. In other words, death is bad because of its affect on conscious existence (so the comparision to pre-life that some have made is completely irrelevent).

  10. #70
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    yes, torture. Rape. Imprisonment. being poisoned. Living in chains. being a pathetic nothing who never live for them.

    The yawning grave is our relief, our oblivion.

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