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  1. #1
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    Default Where did love come from?

    Where did love come from?

    Plato judged that the basis of love is centered upon the mutual struggle for truth. I claim that the emotion of love in humans is evolved from the mother infant relationship in early mammals.

    Occasionally when reading I run across a phrase or sentence or paragraph, which really rings a bell for me. The bell may be recognition of the compatibility of the point to my own conclusions or perhaps the point caused an epiphany, or other reasons. When I encounter such a point I often copy it and store it in a file for later analysis. One such point is as follows: “Platonic idea that the giving and receiving of knowledge, the active formation of another’s character, or the more passive growth under another’s guidance, is the truest and strongest foundation of love”.

    My analysis of this sentence led me down a long trail over an extended period of time to an understanding of the meaning of the statement and to an agreement with the meaning of that statement.

    When studying philosophy I had read some of Plato’s work and had a slight remembrance of one of his Dialogues in which he dealt with the subject of love. After some study of the particular Dialogue in question and some further study of Plato’s general philosophy I realized what was meant by the point made in the sentence I had saved.

    Quickie from Wiki: “Plato constructed the Symposium as a story within a story within a story. This architecture creates the space for Plato to build his philosophy of knowledge. The speech of Socrates points out that the highest purpose of Love is to become a Philosopher, or Lover of Wisdom.”

    I often watch the Discovery Channel on TV. As you probably know this channel often has a great documentary on animal life. Their audio/visual presentations give the viewer wonderful insights into the life of animals. Often the animals in question are large mammals such as lions, gorillas, monkeys, etc.

    Plato wrote, “An unexamined life is not worth living”. I find this a bit hyperbolic but nevertheless agree with the general point. Socrates also argued that the giving and receiving of knowledge, the active formation of another’s character, or the more passive growth under another’s guidance, is the truest and strongest foundation of love. Plato/Socrates judged that the basis of love is centered upon the mutual struggle for truth.

    I would not attempt to explain why Plato’s Idealistic philosophy leads to this conclusion but I think one can find justification for this point of view by considering the nature of the parent to progeny relationship. Considering the nature of evolution one might easily discover that the origin of love could be observed in the obvious relationship of present day mammals. The educational relationship between the animal mother and their progeny are evident to the most casual observer.

    Evolutionary Psychology is based on the theory that all human psychological traits, such as love, must be traceable to our evolutionary ancestors. The source of love in humans is evolved from the mother infant relationship in early mammals (perhaps).

    What do you judge to be the primordial animal source (assuming an acceptance of the validity of Darwin’s theory of natural selection) for the emotion of love in humans?

  2. #2
    Senior Member Journey's Avatar
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    In answer to your question (it's not the one you wanted) the answer has to be:

    1 John 4:19
    We love because He [God] first loved us.
    NIV

    It may not be politically correct at this time to voice such things, but it is true nonetheless.
    "My Journey is my Destination."

    "Today Counts Forever." R.C. Sproul

  3. #3
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    I believe love comes from the ego. You love your offspring (in the most basic sense) because it is a piece of yourself and will ensure your immortality.

    The dopamine and other hormones that release with sexual attraction/gratification makes you feel "love" so you will want to continue to reproduce. Birth is a very painful process and I think this is nature's way of making it "fun".

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    It's all oxytocin folks. We're nothing but a bunch of soft, squishy big-brained apes. We have no natural defense other than our brains and our large social units. Big brains take a long time to mature and that takes serious commitment to the offspring from both parents (males need to have that bond in order to be willing to commit resources). If we didn't have that chemical bond, we'd probably walk and leave the young to become lion food. Without love we'd be toast.

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    Senior Member FC3S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by juggernaut View Post
    It's all oxytocin folks. We're nothing but a bunch of soft, squishy big-brained apes. We have no natural defense other than our brains and our large social units. Big brains take a long time to mature and that takes serious commitment to the offspring from both parents (males need to have that bond in order to be willing to commit resources). If we didn't have that chemical bond, we'd probably walk and leave the young to become lion food. Without love we'd be toast.
    Science would have us believe it is a combination of oxytocin and other chemicals.
    ESTP - Definition: "Love" is making a shot to the knees of a target a 120 km away, with an aratech sniper rifle and tri-light scope.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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    Quote Originally Posted by FC3S View Post
    Science would have us believe it is a combination of oxytocin and other chemicals.
    Yes, because it is. All emotion can eventually be reduced to chemical interactions. We make up fairy tales about the things we do not understand in an effort to understand them. Once we understand them, it's time to let the fairy tales go. It doesn't diminish the value of the things we've tried, incorrectly in the past, to explain. It just allows a better understanding. The things may even become more valuable when we realize how significant they are for our survival. Love is a beautiful example and, yes, it is all chemical (oxytocin being the primary "bonding" chemical).

  7. #7
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Body chemistry and instinct. Like curiosity. In many ways coupled with curiosity.

    There's tons of branches to it too.

    Wanting to share, wanting to be understood, not wanting to be alone, etc, etc. These are more psychologically influenced. But the fundament is still chemistry and instinct, imo.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

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    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Platonic love?
    Or amoebic love?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

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    Choleric love.
    Last edited by juggernaut; 05-20-2009 at 10:06 AM. Reason: Couldn't decide whether it was dysenteric or dysentaric

  10. #10
    Senior Member Grayscale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by juggernaut View Post
    Yes, because it is. All emotion can eventually be reduced to chemical interactions. We make up fairy tales about the things we do not understand in an effort to understand them. Once we understand them, it's time to let the fairy tales go. It doesn't diminish the value of the things we've tried, incorrectly in the past, to explain. It just allows a better understanding. The things may even become more valuable when we realize how significant they are for our survival. Love is a beautiful example and, yes, it is all chemical (oxytocin being the primary "bonding" chemical).
    i dont think anyone would suggest love is some hocus-pocus emotion that we experience without explanation. however, the purpose is not so easy to recognize, i have yet to see Darwinian science explain unconditional love, because by definition, it is the exact opposite of survival of the fittest.

    i dont think it's as simple as love is love... there are degrees, just as there are degrees of what people will do and sacrifice for the ones they love for nothing. "true" love is often mimic'd but very rarely achieved... even selfless acts are often motivated by the feeling they give us, it is extremely rare for someone to not only recognize but to sacrifice for someone else entirely because it would benefit that person. if we do not even experience the slightest sense of pleasure, or even if we were to experience negative feelings like agony and physical pain, then why would we do it, just because it is the ideal thing to do considering everything aside from yourself and your feelings? such self sacrifice for others seems impossible to understand... unexplainable. it is humbling considering the levels of selfishness humans are capable of. such a thing is unthinkable to the world we live in.


    From Wiki...

    "Unconditional love", according to Dr. David R. Hawkins' map of consciousness, is reported to calibrate at a level of 500 on an arbitrary scale of 1 to 1000. This is an exponential scale where 700 to 1,000 represents Enlightenment. From Power vs. Force by Hawkins: "This (unconditional Love) is the level of true happiness, but although the world is fascinated with the subject of Love and all viable religions calibrate at 500 or over, it's interesting to note that only .04 percent if the world's population ever reaches this level of evolution of consciousness".
    Hawkins goes on to say that "As love becomes more and more unconditional, it begins to be experienced as inner joy (540)".
    Professor Mario Beauregard, from Montreal University's centre for research into neurophysiology and cognition, used MRI to study active areas of the brain of people, who were most likely to experience unconditional love. Subjects were asked to call to mind feelings of unconditional love. Researches saw 7 active areas in the brain. Three of those areas were similar to regions in the brain that became active when it came to romantic love. The other four were different, which means that the feeling of love for someone without the need of being rewarded is different from the feeling of romantic love.
    In his study professor Beauregard found that some brain areas that turned on when a person felt unconditional love also engaged in discharging dopamine, chemical that plays a role in sensing pleasure. [1]

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