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  1. #41
    Member ADISCIPLE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThinkingAboutIt View Post
    Yahweh God does not lie - ever.
    I understand you're Christian, and your faith, in which I will completely respect. But none of us will truly know until we die. I know this is such an overstated phrase but that is because it is true. I respect Christians, I really do, but I'm afraid they are going to need some serious consolidation of belief among them for the religion to last then next century or two, especially with the way the world is moving.

  2. #42
    Senior Member ThinkingAboutIt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADISCIPLE View Post
    I understand you're Christian, and your faith, in which I will completely respect. But none of us will truly know until we die. I know this is such an overstated phrase but that is because it is true. I respect Christians, I really do, but I'm afraid they are going to need some serious consolidation of belief among them for the religion to last then next century or two, especially with the way the world is moving.
    Yes, "Christian" is a broad term today that causes much confusion and strife (many think it includes multiple religions with multiple paths to God), so I'll say that I believe in, follow, and thank Jesus Christ (Yeshua) for my salvation. That is the original terminology of "Christian" meaning "Little Christ".

    You are right, that 'christianity' will not be here forever - God said "And the LORD said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he [is] indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years."

    Without the Holy Spirit, man has no conscience because of sin. Another aspect is that if you read the book of Daniel, you will see that prophecy given to man by God thousands of years ago has been fulfilled.

    Back to the original post...the reason I said that Yahweh God doesn't lie is because that was the bottom line of the op's post - that God is either a liar or deceiver, and that title belongs to satan, not Yahweh God.
    Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

  3. #43
    Member ADISCIPLE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThinkingAboutIt View Post
    Yes, "Christian" is a broad term today that causes much confusion and strife (many think it includes multiple religions with multiple paths to God), so I'll say that I believe in, follow, and thank Jesus Christ (Yeshua) for my salvation. That is the original terminology of "Christian" meaning "Little Christ".

    You are right, that 'christianity' will not be here forever - God said "And the LORD said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he [is] indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years."

    Without the Holy Spirit, man has no conscience because of sin. Another aspect is that if you read the book of Daniel, you will see that prophecy given to man by God thousands of years ago has been fulfilled.

    Back to the original post...the reason I said that Yahweh God doesn't lie is because that was the bottom line of the op's post - that God is either a liar or deceiver, and that title belongs to satan, not Yahweh God.
    I think the reference you stated giving man one hundred and twenty years was the during the life of Moses and was referring to the life of a human being. Saying the human being is the flesh and the spirit wouldn't dwell inside the flesh forever. I don't think it was referring to the future Church.

    And when you say "Yahweh God" are you saying God is the God of a certain nation? Or that your God is the same as the God that protected the Israelites? Because when I refer to God I think of him as more along the lines of the entire universe. Sorry for my ignorance, your just speaking out of my terms. I've read the text multiple times but I can't quote any scripture.

  4. #44
    Senior Member ThinkingAboutIt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADISCIPLE View Post
    I think the reference you stated giving man one hundred and twenty years was the during the life of Moses and was referring to the life of a human being. Saying the human being is the flesh and the spirit wouldn't dwell inside the flesh forever. I don't think it was referring to the future Church.

    And when you say "Yahweh God" are you saying God is the God of a certain nation? Or that your God is the same as the God that protected the Israelites? Because when I refer to God I think of him as more along the lines of the entire universe. Sorry for my ignorance, your just speaking out of my terms. I've read the text multiple times but I can't quote any scripture.
    Perhaps I misunderstood the prior posts...I wasn't focused on life expectancy, rather that the bible agrees with what you said - the Holy Spirit will not strive with man for much longer, and once gone, man will no longer be under conviction so it will be pretty bad.

    Yes, Yahweh (YHWH) is God's real name. 'god' can be or mean anything, but there is only one true God, and you are right, it is Jehovah, God of Israel - I AM THAT WHICH I AM.

    Back on topic to the OP:

    It may be worth mentioning as a side-note that if we are supposed to believe in God through faith, then reason is not the gift I thought it was. It is a curse and a mockery. As any chain is only as strong as its weakest link, so faith is only as valuable as it is supported by reason.


    Rational reasoning is given to us, and we are expected to use it, but what Yahweh God wants is for us to walk in faith, and faith is often 'unrational'. Why does He want us to do it? Because it forces us to have a relationship with Him and stay close to Him. Because we get to stand back and watch Him do amazing things that we could never do in our own power. We are created for relationship with Him and we are created for one main purpose - to glorify Him, and we never glorify Him for what we can do ourselves.

    As the strongest link in the chain is an irrelevant matter, so too is faith irrelevant as its only value is awarded by reason. For instance, a man drives off a cliff and may have faith that he will not die when he hits the ground. This faith would be weak and of little value, and in fact no man would have this faith, because he would analyze what he knows about blunt force trauma, and his faith would be near worthless, if faith can be said to have any value at all.

    This is not faith - faith is not a shot in the dark - a hope or wish for something. If you are a christian, you pray, seek guidance, hear His answer, and do what He says to do even if things don't 'appear' to be the way they are supposed to be because you are depending on God to make it happen as you move forward. He will too.

    My faith in a round earth is worth more.


    Your belief is based on facts, not faith - simply believing what you see - that isn't difficult, and doesn't require reason. It was faith for Christopher Columbus though...ever study about his faith? He was opposed at every turn, people told him he was crazy, and laughed at him.

    Faith is built over time, and incorrect faith can destroy real faith. The example you gave of faith to not die if you drive off a mountain is not faith. But an everyday/non religious example of faith is to ask yourself...do I check the stability of a chair before I sit in it? Why do you have faith that it will hold up when you sit down? If you have had one break under you, how many times did it take you before you were able to sit back with with 'faith' that it would hold you up? The point of faith isn't us, it is the object of our faith - and Yahweh God is stable, able, and WILL do what He says He will do - every time, no failures ever, and He does expect a Christian to walk in that faith.
    Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

  5. #45
    Senior Member Into It's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=ThinkingAboutIt;665125]



    This is not faith - faith is not a shot in the dark - a hope or wish for something. If you are a christian, you pray, seek guidance, hear His answer, and do what He says to do even if things don't 'appear' to be the way they are supposed to be because you are depending on God to make it happen as you move forward. He will too.

    It was faith for Christopher Columbus though...ever study about his faith? He was opposed at every turn, people told him he was crazy, and laughed at him.

    Faith is built over time, and incorrect faith can destroy real faith. The example you gave of faith to not die if you drive off a mountain is not faith. But an everyday/non religious example of faith is to ask yourself...do I check the stability of a chair before I sit in it? Why do you have faith that it will hold up when you sit down? If you have had one break under you, how many times did it take you before you were able to sit back with with 'faith' that it would hold you up? The point of faith isn't us, it is the object of our faith - and Yahweh God is stable, able, and WILL do what He says He will do - every time, no failures ever, and He does expect a Christian to walk in that faith.[/QUOTE]


    Many people who are told that they are crazy, and are laughed at, are actually crazy. But we don't read about them. And I wouldn't let the fact that someone had faith in something 500 years ago, about a totally unrelated topic, and turned out to be right, be a reason to use faith. Faith is a kick to reason's mouth, and I declare war on it.

    If anyone made up a religion, no matter how ludicrous and unreasonable, all they would have to say to patch up any inconsistency is that you should believe it "through faith." Believe it "through faith" because reason fails you.
    An inscription above the gate to Hell:
    "Eternal Love also created me"

  6. #46
    Senior Member Into It's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Maybe I'm just a little nutty because I have a "sense" of the personality of inanimate objects and concepts.
    Give me a few ENFP's, please. The more, the merrier. By the way, Bluewing's INFJ profile talks about this "sense" of yours, you should read it if you haven't.


    Quote Originally Posted by ThinkingAboutIt View Post
    Yahweh God does not lie - ever.
    Someone told me that about Allah once. One of you is wrong.
    An inscription above the gate to Hell:
    "Eternal Love also created me"

  7. #47
    Senior Member Into It's Avatar
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    I like Tolstoy's short book "The Kingdom of God is Within," where he describes Christianity as being misunderstood. I happen to agree with Nietzsche's view of Christianity, that it presupposes our weakness, and thus undercuts us, disempowers us. Interestingly, both of these men thought the other was an idiot.
    An inscription above the gate to Hell:
    "Eternal Love also created me"

  8. #48
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Into It View Post
    Give me a few ENFP's, please. The more, the merrier.
    ENFP... hmm...

    Hot Springs
    iPods

    That's all I can think of, actually.

    Quote Originally Posted by Into It View Post
    By the way, Bluewing's INFJ profile talks about this "sense" of yours, you should read it if you haven't.
    I used to be friends with him back when he wrote it, and we spoke a lot. It seems like he wrote it mostly about how he interpreted my behavior through the INFJ paradigm, along with a few other INFJs.

  9. #49
    Senior Member ThinkingAboutIt's Avatar
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    Someone told me that about Allah once. One of you is wrong.

    This makes no sense at all - rational or common.
    Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

  10. #50
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADISCIPLE View Post
    Kalach: [...] And I am supreme because I typed INTJ!!!
    I am the universal a priori.


    (Sub-section Te.)

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