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  1. #691
    Senior Member Pixelholic's Avatar
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    True enough. Where I grew up most of the people I met were Christian Literalists. So when I refer to the parable parts of the bible as fiction, its more a refutation of them rather than any attempt to reduce the morality tales.
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.” -Nietzsche

  2. #692
    Aspiring Troens Ridder KLessard's Avatar
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    Christian. Baptist to be precise, although I don't limit my faith to the Baptist doctrines.

  3. #693
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Ever hear of something called a parable?
    Yes, this is a good point Peguy.

    But perhaps I should explain what I am trying to do here.

    I am trying to look at belief and disbelief from a different point of view.

    And the point of view I have chosen is the suspension of disbelief.

    Normally the suspension of disbelief is applied to art, from the movies to painting and from short stories to opera. But here I am doing something different - I am applying it to worship.

    This is not so strange as it might appear as drama began as morality plays inside the church then moved to an outdoor stage attached to the back of the church. And interestingly we have such as stage attached to the back of the Uniting Church just up the road from me. (These stages have a particular name - perhaps Peguy can tell us). And then the play moved from the back of the church to the theatre and then to the movie theatre.

    So all I am suggesting is that we move in the opposite direction. And instead of moving from the church to the movies, we move from the movies to the church.

    This is entirely possible because in both cases we do exactly the same thing - we suspend our disbelief.

    And it does us no credit to diss the suspension of disbelief by using the pejorative word, 'fiction'.

    Let me say quite clearly that those who diss the suspension of disbelief are lacking imagination. They are impoverished and wish to impoverish us all.

    Peguy, for instance, does not lack imagination and so he wishes to enrich us all.

    And in like form I am suggesting we enrich ourselves by taking our high level skill, the suspension of disbelief, from the movies and cross the street to our chosen house of worship.

    Or don't you believe me? In that case all you need to do is to suspend your disbelief and cross the road with me.

  4. #694
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    It was quite popular when it first came out, being one of the main slogans of the Christian Socialist and Social Gospel movements.
    Interesting. I haven't researched the history of Christian slogans, but I am not surprised. Perhaps the trend is cyclic.

  5. #695
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    The essential differance is that in a movie you suspend your disbelief about something to allow it to be accepted as part of the story. In church, you would have to suspend your disbelief in order to accept something as part of reality, which is a different feat altogether.
    Also, people usually go to the movies to be entertained. Should atheists then add church services to the local performing arts calendar and attend for the entertainment value?

  6. #696
    Senior Member Nonsensical's Avatar
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    When does one abandon Agnosticism and fall into Atheism? I'm stuck between the two.
    Is it that by its indefiniteness it shadows forth the heartless voids and immensities of the universe, and thus stabs us from behind with the thought of annihilation, when beholding the white depths of the milky way?

  7. #697
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Also, people usually go to the movies to be entertained. Should atheists then add church services to the local performing arts calendar and attend for the entertainment value?
    Only a short time ago the church was the centre of social life in the village.

    And as we are now moving into the global village, it is time to reclaim the church for the social life of the earth.

  8. #698
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Only a short time ago the church was the centre of social life in the village.

    And as we are now moving into the global village, it is time to reclaim the church for the social life of the earth.
    Ah. So is it your contention, then, that atheists should attend church for the social value? Would it be equally effective for religious people to go to the movies more? Perhaps everyone should start attending more sporting events. If the primary purpose is fostering communty social life, this can be done in many venues.

  9. #699
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Funkadelic View Post
    When does one abandon Agnosticism and fall into Atheism? I'm stuck between the two.
    When you cease to regard the question of whether some form of deity or higher power truly exists as a meaningful one, and come to consider it an irrelevance or a folly.
    Look into my avatar. Look deep into my avatar...

  10. #700
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Ah. So is it your contention, then, that atheists should attend church for the social value? Would it be equally effective for religious people to go to the movies more? Perhaps everyone should start attending more sporting events. If the primary purpose is fostering communty social life, this can be done in many venues.
    Quite so.

    And I notice that many churches are falling into disuse and so what appears to be a problem may be an opportunity.

    And as we are moving from individual literacy to the electronic tribe of the global village, now may be the time to reclaim the churches for the noosphere.

    And the noosphere has many religious elements. It was coined by Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, a paleontologist, a geologist and a Jesuit priest who took part in the discovery of Peking Man. And the noosphere has abolished time and space. So we are all like angels - disembodied pure spirits.

    Our appropriate place is in the churches, but churches not with pulpits but huge liquid crystal screens on the walls, connected to the liquid crystal screens and cameras of all the other churches in the world.

    The global village made manifest.

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