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  1. #321
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    ECKANKAR: Official Main Site of Eckankar, Religion of the Light and Sound of God

    they don't know it yet but they've been praying to me all these years.
    Why all the whining >_<
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  2. #322
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    This is a logical fallacy called, "The no true Scotsman fallacy".
    Thank you Victor.

    However, the point that Buddha did not create a religion is true, but it's for such a small time frame that is essentially irrelevant. The same charge can be leveled against most religions. In those times, religion was codified social and moral rules, which Buddha still easily falls into.

    The only reason I hesitate at all to say that Buddhism is not religious is because it had no divinity, but I reject that because it was made up of mysticism as a foundation. Thus, from the outset, it was a religion to me - but that's semantics. This is notably different than Confucianism, to draw the same comparison. It took a lot longer for Confucianism have any form of worship, and even that is an aberration. It certainly plays no part at all in reaching enlightenment or some such.

  3. #323
    Senior Member Hexis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Excuse me, not too long ago you referred to me as a soft porn peddler.
    Wait, what?! Seriously?!
    SDMF

  4. #324
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hexis View Post
    Wait, what?! Seriously?!
    It's hard to believe, isn't it?

  5. #325
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvyak View Post
    Victor: I don't understand what you're trying to prove. I never disregarded the huge impact of Christianity on the european culture or on humanity as a whole, I was only pointing out that most intellectuals in the 21st century don't need God anymore. As I'm sure you know, there is a strong correlation between scientific evolution and the change of moral and existential views in modern societies - democracy is based on the aspect that every individual has the possibility (and the ability!) to freely adapt or create values without external oppression. This stepping stone (naturally inseparable from the ideas of 18th century thinkers and later darwinism) severely weakened the influence of the Church - simply because people became more independent in their thoughts and visions. I don't help the poor 'cause Jesus Christ won't take me to heaven, I help because of the guidance of my 'internal compass' (which is, without a doubt, at least partially influenced by the christian culture I was raised in).

    Religious concepts and Christianity were very important for the West - now, it's nothing more than a setback; we should conserve its 'gifts' and advance without losing sight of our roots, but it's not necessary for "defending our civilization" (lolwut?). You seem to confuse freedom and free speech with christian spirituality somehow...

    (sry people, Captain Obvious intruded - I promise it won't happen again )
    It's more like recognising and honouring your parents.

    If you recognise and honour your parents, you recognise and honour yourself.

    But if you forget them and put them in an old folks' home, you forget yourself and your beginnings.

    And as the child is the father of the man, your beginnings shape your future.

    And I would even go further and say that in our beginnings lies our very meaning.

    Today you and I live in Secular countries with Secular Constitutions.

    And the Secular society grew out of the conflict between the Christians Denominations. And has given us Freedom of Religion and Speech.

    To deny our origins in Christianity is a vulgar and cheap as denying the Origin of Species.

    It means the death of originality.

    And without originality, we are cast adrift without direction or even an anchor.

    We are prey to every fad and fashion thrown up by the television New Age.

    And without originality, everything becomes stale and dull - ennui rules.

    Look around you - the largest reason for presenting at a doctor's surgery is depression.

    Without knowing where you have come from, you don't know where you are going, and you take no delight in the world around you. And the result is depression.

    Paradoxically, originality depends on conserving the past.

  6. #326
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    You have told me in public that you hate me.

    And it has become plain you can't resist insulting me in print in public.
    I don't hate you, but it is awfully hard to resist insulting you sometimes.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  7. #327
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jen View Post
    If i did what you're suggesting i do then I'd be serving coffee and donuts at the church up the street.

    I know a lot of non religious people who have way better morals and ethics than the crackpots I encounter on a daily basis. Hypocrisy looms large in these parts.

    Wanna know what I can't stand? It's the way a lot of religious folks spin things to justify their own fears and shortcomings. "Oh, I'm a perv but God will forgive me because it says (blah blah blah) in the Bible." Or let people who are "different" know that if they're not exactly like the rest of the congregation, they don't belong under the same roof as them.

    Nope, not buying into that crap. and that's just what it is. a stinking vile hateful pile of dung.

    Oh and in addition to the choices pepsi (Episcopalian) or coke (Presbyterian) I'd like to add,

    dr pepper (muslim), cheerwine (baptist) and so on (feel free to add your own).

    religion just very well may be a fear tactic that was introduced to try and keep people in line. something to cling to so that we don't feel "alone".

    My upfront disclaimer is that I definitely don't care or judge you about what you believe about the existence of God or even about particular social issues.

    But you so grossly overgeneralize the people around you and the groups that they belong to, it's a shame. You aren't trying any harder to thoughtfully engage their ways of looking at the world than they are with yours. And maybe you feel totally justified in that (since sure, they aren't interested in understanding you, maybe), but it is pretty certain that nobody's learning anything or expanding in any way at this rate.

    You come across as really cynical whenever you talk about other people. It's kind of sad.
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  8. #328
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    My upfront disclaimer is that I definitely don't care or judge you about what you believe about the existence of God or even about particular social issues.

    But you so grossly overgeneralize the people around you and the groups that they belong to, it's a shame. You aren't trying any harder to thoughtfully engage their ways of looking at the world than they are with yours. And maybe you feel totally justified in that (since sure, they aren't interested in understanding you, maybe), but it is pretty certain that nobody's learning anything or expanding in any way at this rate.

    You come across as really cynical whenever you talk about other people. It's kind of sad.
    patronizing and cynical, don't forget.

    You come across as having an absence of happiness but as you once clarified, you often use your blog as a place to vent which i can totally understand because there are times when I do that here myself (although I usually regret opening up).

    I've often read things you've posted and identified a lot with what you've said, even reaching out to you several times only to be batted away. i felt a little bad but it is your blog and you are certainly entitled to your feelings without my two cents thrown in. there's a lot about me that i don't share because I'm not that open of a person, but i will say i don't appreciate people who go out of their way to make others uncomfortable or feel badly about themselves. I've struggled most of my life to be comfortable in my own skin and at this point in my life and I will either call them on it or dissociate myself with them. Forum people included.

    Anyway back on track with why I feel the way i do about most of the religious people I come into contact with. Last year when I signed our youngest daughter up for preschool at a nearby baptist school, I was treated with little respect. Now mind you this wasn't my first experience with our children attending preschool and I am aware when I am being treated differently and clever enough to figure out why.

    when i removed her from this school i decided to check out a new preschool within 5 minutes from our home which was a bonus. one of the questions i asked the director was, "how would your church react if a homosexual couple wanted to attend your church?"her reply was that they would accept them because God loves all of us, but they would let them know that homosexuality is unacceptable and encourage then to life their lives according to God's will. Go ahead and call me cynical if you will, but I am still not thrilled with their judgmental behavior and am still pondering whether or not i'll sign her up for next year.

    When I was in my early 20's I had a lot of faith in people and was less critical but nearing 40 I realize that most people are out for themselves. You may disagree with things I say but until you've walked in my shoes, you can't possibly understand completely who I am or what I'm thinking.

    In conclusion, we all have the ability to make our own choices so for right now I choose to be in limbo which isn't a horrible place to be till I can wrap my head around why if God loves us so much why is he so judgmental? Why does he allow so many dreadful things to happen to good people?

    edit: i also attending a Christian private school from 2nd-12th grade so I wouldn't say I'm clueless when it comes to religion.
    Time is a delicate mistress.

  9. #329
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jen View Post
    We all have the ability to make choices and I choose to be in limbo when it comes to religion for the time being.
    And rest assured that I had and have no agenda to tell you what to believe in those areas. I asked you questions to try to find out more about why you believe what YOU believe, and not why people around you cause you grief. Now, I realize we don't form our beliefs completely independently of our environment, but ultimately those choices we make have to be based on what is true to ourselves and not to those around us, regardless of whether we enjoy or loathe those people's company.
    Jeffster Illustrates the Artisan Temperament <---- click here

    "I like the sigs with quotes in them from other forum members." -- Oberon

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  10. #330
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jen View Post
    patronizing and cynical, don't forget.

    You come across as having an absence of happiness but as you once clarified, you often use your blog as a place to vent which i can totally understand because there are times when I do that here myself (although I usually regret opening up).

    I've often read things you've posted and identified a lot with what you've said, even reaching out to you several times only to be batted away. i felt a little bad but it is your blog and you are certainly entitled to your feelings without my two cents thrown in. there's a lot about me that i don't share because I'm not that open of a person, but i will say i don't appreciate people who go out of their way to make others uncomfortable or feel badly about themselves. I've struggled most of my life to be comfortable in my own skin and at this point in my life and I will either call them on it or dissociate myself with them. Forum people included.

    Anyway back on track with why I feel the way i do about most of the religious people I come into contact with. Last year when I signed our youngest daughter up for preschool at a nearby baptist school, I was treated with little respect. Now mind you this wasn't my first experience with our children attending preschool and I am aware when I am being treated differently and clever enough to figure out why.

    when i removed her from this school i decided to check out a new preschool within 5 minutes from our home which was a bonus. one of the questions i asked the director was, "how would your church react if a homosexual couple wanted to attend your church?"her reply was that they would accept them because God loves all of us, but they would let them know that homosexuality is unacceptable and encourage then to life their lives according to God's will. Go ahead and call me cynical if you will, but I am still not thrilled with their judgmental behavior and am still pondering whether i'll sign her up for next year.

    When I was in my early 20's I had a lot of faith in people and was less critical but nearing 40 I realize that most people are out for themselves. You may disagree with things I say but until you've walked in my shoes, you can't possibly understand completely who I am. We all have the ability to make choices and I choose to be in limbo when it comes to religion for the time being.
    Should've kept your little one in the Baptist school. She would gain over time somewhat of what the real world is really like. It would present a tolorance to Islam through Baptist simularities with Islam. In public school kids learn of the way of infidelity. Thus disrespecting Islam and Baptist enough to make them go to such an extreme as learning how to fly a 727 just to drop a skyscraper
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

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