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  1. #291
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbles View Post
    That's like hating Germans because of Hitler. Not all Catholics are intolerant. Just enough to annoy the majority who aren't. And of course there were bad times in the past, but isn't it fair to say the Catholics currently in existence did not promote the Spanish Inquisition, nor the Crusades?

    Besides. The OP is about atheism.
    Absolutely right.

    And the French calvinists, the Huguenots, committed as equally terrible persecutions against the Catholics in some regions of France as the Catholics did against others.

    The philosophy that a state needs to be religiously uniform in order to stable, rather than the actual religious doctrine, I believe would be the more accurate source of strife that occurred. Separation of Church and State, largely solved this problem, and no single religion can take credit or blame for this.

  2. #292
    Lasting_Pain
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    Quote Originally Posted by Take Five View Post
    That's incorrect. First, God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are all the same thing and the only thing to be worshipped. The Pope is not worshipped, nor is he prayed to. The rest of the "list," i.e. saints like Mary, are also not worshipped. The belief is that saints can intercede on one's behalf, not that they are to receive worship.
    God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost are the same thing but they are separate entities that require worshiping. Even states that in the bible. Victor even stated that the Pope is above prosecution and the law. I like Catholics as people but their religion is really screwed up.

  3. #293
    Senior Member Into It's Avatar
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    Those who think ill of Atheists are those who subscribe to a predetermined system of values. So an Atheist should not be saddened that they think ill of him, because it is not they who are thinking. They are a mirror at their most individualistic; their feelings were decided for them before they were even born.

    Others, who do not subscribe to set value systems, tend not to think so ill of Atheists, so I don't know if this is really that big of a problem.

    I personally believe that Atheists deserve to be thought of as ignorant to some degree, and guilty of a similar crime as those who regularly decry them. Atheism is a proclamation that one knows what cannot be known. This is arrogant and ignorant. To me, as a skeptic, the universe appears to show little hard evidence for having a creator. But in my humility I cannot allow myself to be anything other than Agnostic; I am no charlatan; I will not proclaim knowledge of that which is so unfathomably beyond any reasonable conclusion that I could draw from the little that can be sensed.
    An inscription above the gate to Hell:
    "Eternal Love also created me"

  4. #294
    rawr Costrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Into It View Post
    I personally believe that Atheists deserve to be thought of as ignorant to some degree, and guilty of a similar crime as those who regularly decry them. Atheism is a proclamation that one knows what cannot be known. This is arrogant and ignorant. To me, as a skeptic, the universe appears to show little hard evidence for having a creator. But in my humility I cannot allow myself to be anything other than Agnostic; I am no charlatan; I will not proclaim knowledge of that which is so unfathomably beyond any reasonable conclusion that I could draw from the little that can be sensed.
    Well I dunno about Atheism, but atheism isn't like that.
    "All humour has a foundation of truth."
    - Costrin

  5. #295
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lasting_Pain View Post
    God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost are the same thing but they are separate entities that require worshiping. Even states that in the bible. Victor even stated that the Pope is above prosecution and the law. I like Catholics as people but their religion is really screwed up.
    You're still mixed up a little. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are the three distinct Persons of God, all of which = God. And God is the only being that Catholics worship, though we may experience God through any and all of the three Persons. I honestly don't know where the bit about the Pope comes from, but even were Victor's claim true, it's hardly grounds to dismiss the Church.

  6. #296
    Senior Member FC3S's Avatar
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    "Do you believe in God?"

    "Yep."

    "Do you believe in my god?"

    "No."

    "You're going to hell."
    ESTP - Definition: "Love" is making a shot to the knees of a target a 120 km away, with an aratech sniper rifle and tri-light scope.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  7. #297
    Senior Member Into It's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Costrin View Post
    Well I dunno about Atheism, but atheism isn't like that.
    Hmm, fair enough I guess...if atheism means you don't believe it as ardently. In that case, I would be an atheist as well. But whether or not we regard it as a 'Religion' or a simple belief, an axe must be hurled at any "conclusion" based on data that is nowhere to be found, or facts which are not facts. When one calls himself "atheist," this is instead of "agnostic," or "christian" or "buddhist." It is a religious identity. In response to the question, "Are you Christian?" one commonly answers "No, I am atheist." The only atheist I could respect (in this regard) is one who is not a "true" atheist, but is actually an agnostic person who feels 99.99% sure that there is no God.

    One may then argue that all people are really agnostic then, because no one is sure 100%, and so all religions are obselete in this respect. Fine with me. What my true crusade is against is 100% belief, and so I retract statements that are against atheism only, since atheism is more sensible than many alternatives. It is true that I group atheism in with all religions in an idealistic, hypothetical manner, that is, that any belief in which much time and energy are invested, and placed on a pedestal of religious importance, which does not have very solid ground is regrettable. But in its actual practice, most atheists are flexible, if only a little, and are not arrogant or ignorant to me.
    An inscription above the gate to Hell:
    "Eternal Love also created me"

  8. #298
    Senior Member Into It's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FC3S View Post
    "Do you believe in God?"

    "Yep."

    "Do you believe in my god?"

    "No."

    "You're going to hell."
    My God's Hell or your God's Hell?
    An inscription above the gate to Hell:
    "Eternal Love also created me"

  9. #299
    Senior Member FC3S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Into It View Post
    My God's Hell or your God's Hell?
    I'm agnostic/nihilist
    ESTP - Definition: "Love" is making a shot to the knees of a target a 120 km away, with an aratech sniper rifle and tri-light scope.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  10. #300
    rawr Costrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Into It View Post
    Hmm, fair enough I guess...if atheism means you don't believe it as ardently. In that case, I would be an atheist as well. But whether or not we regard it as a 'Religion' or a simple belief, an axe must be hurled at any "conclusion" based on data that is nowhere to be found, or facts which are not facts. When one calls himself "atheist," this is instead of "agnostic," or "christian" or "buddhist." It is a religious identity. In response to the question, "Are you Christian?" one commonly answers "No, I am atheist." The only atheist I could respect (in this regard) is one who is not a "true" atheist, but is actually an agnostic person who feels 99.99% sure that there is no God.

    One may then argue that all people are really agnostic then, because no one is sure 100%, and so all religions are obselete in this respect. Fine with me. What my true crusade is against is 100% belief, and so I retract statements that are against atheism only, since atheism is more sensible than many alternatives. It is true that I group atheism in with all religions in an idealistic, hypothetical manner, that is, that any belief in which much time and energy are invested, and placed on a pedestal of religious importance, which does not have very solid ground is regrettable. But in its actual practice, most atheists are flexible, if only a little, and are not arrogant or ignorant to me.
    Basically your definition of atheism is wrong. I've actually posted about that before in this thread.
    "All humour has a foundation of truth."
    - Costrin

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