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  1. #261
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Take Five View Post
    Let me give you a hint. You come off as insanely pompous and I think you are talking out of your ass.
    Question: what is being "insanely pompous", according to you?

    ---

    Is it the one who judges people, who believes in an absolute truth (an oxymoron, if you want my opinion), and thinks he knows it, however imperfect he claims to be later?

    What kind of man are you?

    Do you think you're "less imperfect" than me?
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  2. #262
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greed View Post
    Oh, yeah, I agree with you here. I just wanted to tie this back into the original question of why "atheists are thought ill of."

    What I mean is that when a belief that something is wrong manifests as a judgment and persecution of the person, that is when atheists (or believers) are thought ill of.



    To further respond to the initial inquiry of the thread, as to why it occurs, the can be generalized. It seems that people tend to see one difference between "their group" and "the opposing group" and also see other, more threatening differences where they don't appear.

    This happens all the time, for good and for bad.

    Take skin color. Many subconsciously assume that those who share our skin color share many other aspects of our personality or beliefs, which can manifest itself as "hanging around" others with our skin color. This is actually true to a certain extent, due to common sociological and other factors, but the perceived similarity--or, at least, the perception that we have more in common with those of our skin color than those who do not share our same skin color--is often overblown.

    Throughout history, this has even been done with eye or hair color to a lesser extent.

    (Speaking in the general "we" here: )

    Since Christianity is associated with morality, if we're Christian, we assume other Christians to be moral as well. We also see these two similarities as interlinked; the perception can then arise that those without Christianity cannot be moral. And that's where atheists becoming "thought ill of" begins.
    I'm with you all the way until the last paragraph. For Christians, atheism-the rejection of God- is sinful. So someone known to be an atheist, for Christains and others is known to be sinful, as the individual is responsible for his or her own actions. It's not that we think atheists can't be moral, however. It's that Christians acknowledge atheists as sinning, according to their own religion.
    Theft and murder are also sins, so I suspect that atheists may be the recipients of the same attitude that people would have against known thieves and murderers, though maybe not as severely.

    It is also possible that the existence of God is so evident to some people that for some one else not to "get it" would be foolish. As foolish as someone with normal vision to claim that the sky is green on an ordinary sunny afternoon.

  3. #263
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Take Five View Post
    It is also possible that the existence of God is so evident to some people that for some one else not to "get it" would be foolish.
    "Evident" means you have evidences.

    Ex-videre: what can be seen.

    ---

    Do you think our eyes aren't the same, functionally speaking? In which wavelength do you see the light?
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  4. #264
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Question: what is being "insanely pompous", according to you?

    ---

    Is it the one who judges people, who believes in an absolute truth (an oxymoron, if you want my opinion), and thinks he knows it, however imperfect he claims to be later?

    What kind of man are you?

    Do you think you're "less imperfect" than me?
    The answer to the first question of the quote lies in the rest of the quote and in your writings. e.g. phrases like "have you even noticed..." and stating how "obviously" confused I am in basic terminology.

    I mean at least I admit that I have some degree of excessive pride. The way you play down others (probably to make yourself feel better about your own insecurities) is a dead give away for arrogance/conceit.

    And the rest of the quote here is telling me that you are not carefully reading my posts, so please stop with this bickering.

  5. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by Take Five View Post
    It's not that we think atheists can't be moral, however. It's that Christians acknowledge atheists as sinning, according to their own religion.
    Theft and murder are also sins, so I suspect that atheists may be the recipients of the same attitude that people would have against known thieves and murderers, though maybe not as severely.
    I agree. And you'll be glad to know that I wasn't lumping you in with the Christians who do consciously think that atheists can't be moral.

    I'm just exploring this idea.. but perhaps some Christians view those who would partake in the "sin" of atheism as those who also have the capacity to partake in other sins, such as theft and murder. This touches back back on my concept perceived similarities and differences.

  6. #266
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    "Evident" means you have evidences.

    Ex-videre: what can be seen.

    ---

    Do you think our eyes aren't the same, functionally speaking? In which wavelength do you see the light?
    OK I honestly think you're just joking.

    But you know what? You're right. I mean how can anyone actually believe that there is gravity, it's just plain theory. And don't get me started on evolution or global warming.

    Let's please move past this now

  7. #267
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greed View Post
    I agree. And you'll be glad to know that I wasn't lumping you in with the Christians who do consciously think that atheists can't be moral.

    I'm just exploring this idea.. but perhaps some Christians view those who would partake in the "sin" of atheism as those who also have the capacity to partake in other sins, such as theft and murder. This touches back back on my concept perceived similarities and differences.
    Yeah I would definitely not be surprised to see that.

  8. #268
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Take Five View Post
    The answer to the first question of the quote lies in the rest of the quote and in your writings.
    e.g. phrases like "have you even noticed..." and stating how "obviously" confused I am in basic terminology.
    English is a secondary language for me. Should you be able to read and understand French, I could give you a real idea of what is "being insanely pompous".

    Furthermore, it's true you seem to display a lot of confusions within basic epistemological terminology. I really think it.

    But you know, this fight is rigged: you want to defeat me on my own battleground. Sun Tzu would have warned you this is hopeless, and that this atitude is a sign of arrogance (indeed!).

    I mean at least I admit that I have some degree of excessive pride. The way you play down others (probably to make yourself feel better about your own insecurities) is a dead give away for arrogance/conceit.
    You're becoming wiser, but it's not yet completely accurate.

    1) I'm not playing down others, I'm playing you down .
    I'm only reacting to your own contradictions, I find them strange, weird, and well, ENTPs are playful by nature.

    2) Indeed, I have lot of insecurities. But I do not feel especially humiliated to admit it. Insecurities are the driving forces behind my curiosity. Do you think Philosophy as a whole would have a purpose without the existential angst we all share?
    As a matter of fact, it's also the difference between your reasoning and mine. As I said, you believe in absolute truths. While I think that each assertion must be put into context, to determine whether they are more valid than the others, or not!
    And that is an absolute rule.

    Anyway. Again, ENTPs are playful.

    And the rest of the quote here is telling me that you are not carefully reading my posts, so please stop with this bickering.
    What are you afraid of?
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  9. #269
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    English is a secondary language for me. Should you be able to read and understand French, I could give you a real idea of what is "being insanely pompous".

    Furthermore, it's true you seem to display a lot of confusions within basic epistemological terminology. I really think it.

    But you know, this fight is rigged: you want to defeat me on my own battleground. Sun Tzu would have warned you this is hopeless, and that this atitude is a sign of arrogance (indeed!).



    You're becoming wiser, but it's not yet completely accurate.

    1) I'm not playing down others, I'm playing you down .
    I'm only reacting to your own contradictions, I find them strange, weird, and well, ENTPs are playful by nature.

    2) Indeed, I have lot of insecurities. But I do not feel especially humiliated to admit it. Insecurities are the driving forces behind my curiosity. Do you think Philosophy as a whole would have a purpose without the existential angst we all share?
    As a matter of fact, it's also the difference between your reasoning and mine. As I said, you believe in absolute truths. While I think that each assertion must be put into context, to determine whether they are more valid than the others, or not!
    And that is an absolute rule.

    Anyway. Again, ENTPs are playful.



    What are you afraid of?
    Je peux parler. Je pense que tu sois un homme fou et arrogant. Non, je crois la verite universelle de cette pensee. Tu donne ton peuple un mal nom.

    C'est la fin de notre conversation maintenant.

  10. #270
    Lasting_Pain
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkmoon View Post
    I've had some interesting conversations with friends lately about athiests and been surprised to find that many think some weird things about atheists and atheism like:

    -Atheists are without morals
    -Atheists cannot be normal nice people
    -Atheism promotes lawlessness
    -Atheists are arrogant because they don't believe there is something higher than them
    -Atheists don't have a sense of purpose in life
    -Atheists don't deserve the same respect as everyone else
    -Atheists don't respect other people
    -A rise in Atheism is making the planet corrupt
    -If you say you are an Atheist you are trying to convert everyone to your beliefs which is wrong but it's OK to try to convert an Atheist
    -It's OK to question Atheists about why they don't believe in God but not OK for them to question why people do.

    None of those things are particularly true so where do these attitudes come from? It seems the majority of people I know subscribe to at least one of these beliefs.
    I really would like to use some Matrix references right now...........

    But with that being said people dislike atheists because they are not bound by rules or the fact that they are being watched by someone above. I think they are the ones who are truly free. Atheists are some of the nicest people I've met. I believe in God and Christ, but I always have serious and humorous debates with atheists. It is nothing funnier than having a religious humorous debate with an atheist. With that being said, I hope I get to see atheists in heaven because they are some of the best people I know. Even better than most of the self-proclaimed muslims,jews,christians,buddahist,etc.......

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