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  1. #221
    rawr Costrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Take Five View Post
    I don't take any atheists under the age of 25 seriously. The rest I think are foolish and very afraid, or misguided, or just do not think actively or in depth about the subject.
    "All humour has a foundation of truth."
    - Costrin

  2. #222
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Take Five View Post
    I don't take any atheists under the age of 25 seriously. The rest I think are foolish and very afraid, or misguided, or just do not think actively or in depth about the subject.
    That's a shame. I share the same thoughts for those that are religious. (Well, I don't, but your beliefs are identical to many I know, going both ways).

    In general I think strongly religious people exhibit more conviction, while strongly atheist people more often exhibit angst, frustration, and arrogance. I think many atheists use their atheism as a way of convincing themselves they are more clever than others. Although arrogance and denial is no stranger to religious folks either, after all I just wrote that I think many atheists are foolish.
    Many, or all? The two quotes listed here seem to argue this both ways.

  3. #223
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    All are subject to at least one of the characteristics in the first quote, many for the second group. They're two different sets of characteristics.
    I also can't help but think that many atheists may want to be thought ill of in order to receive negative attention. Like kids that act up and misbehave.

  4. #224
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    I heard from a reliable source atheists worship the devil.

  5. #225
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Take Five View Post
    All are subject to at least one of the characteristics in the first quote, many for the second group. They're two different sets of characteristics.
    Ah, I suppose if you are arrogant enough to believe that your truth is the truth, everyone fits into 'misguided' anyway. I think that you fall into quite a few of those categories myself, much more so than the atheists I know. *shrug*

  6. #226
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    I heard from a reliable source atheists worship the devil.
    To have the words: "reliable source" and "devil" in the same sentence is amusing in and of itself.

  7. #227
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    Just wait for the day when the militant evangelic Atheists and the militant evangelic Christians go to war. It'll be a bloodbath!

    Meanwhile I believe what I want in the privacy of my own mind. The control freaks of either stripe haven't found a way to prevent that yet.

  8. #228
    Senior Member millerm277's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Maybe, if we're going by the standard image of the Inquisition. Scholarship now concedes that it was far less brutal than previously imagined. For example, torture was actually very rarely used; largely because legal codes prevented the use of confessions obtained through such to be used in court. And when it was conducted, strict rules were enforced on how it was to be carried out - such as no blood could be spilt.
    Source? Not saying you're wrong, but having been brought up Jewish, I learned a good deal about the Inquisition, and haven't heard much along the lines of what you're saying. Anyway, I was just using an example. Point being, while Christians have certainly had their terrible tragedies as well, as a whole, I think Atheists have been far more persecuted in recent times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Take Five
    I don't take any atheists under the age of 25 seriously. The rest I think are foolish and very afraid, or misguided, or just do not think actively or in depth about the subject. Just because religion is more frequently associated with moral/rules/order/persecution does not automatically make religious people good, but nor does it justify a backlash against all religion for being hypocritical, or that religion is all conspiracy by ignorant masses.
    No two humans are alike. What is logical and rational to one, is not necessarily the same to the other. You can lay out all the facts, details and viewpoints to two people, and they may both come to different conclusions. To me, I do not find the concept of god to be a believable one to me, therefore religion is not a concept that makes sense.

    Just because atheists are a minority does not make them right or smarter.
    This is certainly true. The same can be same for religion..."Just because theists are a majority...", etc. It all depends on your viewpoint. Being an atheist requires as much of a leap of "faith" so to speak, as being a theist.

    Spirituality is as much an aspect of humanity as the physical body and the mind.
    I have never felt spiritual. I've probably worked/been at events for every religious group in existence (I do technical stage work on the side), and I've never had any sort of spirituality appear in me.

    In general I think strongly religious people exhibit more conviction, while strongly atheist people more often exhibit angst, frustration, and arrogance.
    I strongly disagree with this, whenever you are on the opposite end of the debate, the other person comes off like that. Theists who are arguing with me always come off that way to me, and I'm sure I do when I argue to them. The reason for this is simple. Both sides believe the basis of the beliefs of the other to be wrong, and have trouble understanding why the other person doesn't agree with them after they show them their "proof", as obviously, what they believe in...makes no sense.
    I-95%, S-84%, T-89%, P-84%

  9. #229
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    I don't agree with the whole "let's agree to disagree" attitude that is popular today. Believing something, on any side, does not require arrogance. In fact, anyone who claims to be a theist and does not have occasional and severe doubts has probably not examined his or her faith closely enough. That being said, there is confidence and there is arrogance. They are two different things. To me it doesn't matter how intelligent a person is, because even geniuses can be foolish. There is a difference between intelligence and wisdom, I think everyon can agree with that. So it doesn't really matter to me whether most scientists and academics are atheist or theist because I don't think scientists or academics are granted extraordinary insight automatically.

    I also don't believe in the idea that there are many truths. I think there is one truth. Naturally I think my truth is the truth, or else why would I have my truth? In my experience I find that many atheists pronounce their atheism just to make themselves look clever, or to try to fit themselves into the circle of the highly intelligent.

    Even I, who believes in God, have doubts from time to time of God's existence--it's a question that cannot be ignored, especially in today's world where there are so many atheists. It's also a question that needs to be addressed by each person individually because it is a part of human growth.

    If believing in God and thinking that it's right makes me arrogant, well then I guess I'm arrogant by your standards. Boo hoo. But I'm sticking to my guns anyway because I'm not intimidated by the so called "lack of evidence" for God's existence. I cannot deny that of the capital sins, pride is the most dangerous for me, but that does not disqualify me or my truth from being correct. I hope you are not an atheist because of my own pride, or the pride of other believers. Nobody's perfect.

    As for never having spiritual experiences, that does not mean you do not have a spiritual dimension. Imagine a person who just decides never to use a left leg. The lack of use and experience of it doesn't mean it isn't there. Of course you can "live" without nourishing your spirit, but it is only a physical life. Ignoring the spiritual doesn't mean it isn't there. Honing in on one's spirituality requires effort just like body-building.

    I don't consider atheism a "leap of faith." Only theism is a leap of faith because only theism has consequences that direct the person in its completeness. Religion subscribes and frees the person to a complete understanding of human origins, present, and future. Acceptance of God requires one to acknowledge one's own and humanity's own limitations. Belief in God gives purpose to life, and will drive the way one lives.

    Not being an atheist, I see atheism as a cop out to avoid ultimate responsibility. Ignoring, out of fear or misinformation, the real essence of humanity, indeed the real essence of everything. It is a running away from truth, a narrow system of thought that ultimately restricts oneself.

    For me there is too much evidence for me to ignore the existence of God. Atheists are missing out. This along with my past experiences and observations, not my general disagreement, is the source of my perceptions of atheists.

    pretty long

  10. #230
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Take Five View Post
    In my experience I find that many atheists pronounce their atheism just to make themselves look clever, or to try to fit themselves into the circle of the highly intelligent.
    I also think there is only one truth. I just don't think anyone has it.

    If believing in God and thinking that it's right makes me arrogant, well then I guess I'm arrogant by your standards.
    Arrogant because you believe in God? No... I think you are arrogant because of your words. You are arrogant in your beliefs, and arrogant in how you address those that do not share them, or disagree.

    Sweeping general statements like:

    I don't take any atheists under the age of 25 seriously. The rest I think are foolish and very afraid, or misguided, or just do not think actively or in depth about the subject.

    are extremely arrogant. Your lack of respect for other's beliefs is your own, and has nothing to do with God. You can believe it as strongly as you want, but expect others to treat you, and see you, the same way as you see them... because the three (one of which must be true, you say) statements you make above are much easier applied to religion than atheists, in principle. They, however, remain false for most theists and atheists.

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