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  1. #11
    Senior Member run's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Does it help if you know INTJs use "Chart the Course" interaction style? They'll tell you what to do and then you're supposed to do it by yourself. Or to put it another way, they don't want to be the one supplying the energy to get something done, just the direction.

    Why? Who knows. Function order or something. But one effect is, people seeking further connection to the INTJ teacher usually find themselves disappointed, even harshly rebuffed.
    So... are we stuck? Do I have to go to teacher A for help with class B?

    I don't think it has to be that way...

  2. #12
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    You could try getting him fired.


    Generally speaking, if someone comes to me for help, I will tend to outline solutions, and that's it. I'll also like it better if opportunities are made to arise within class session time to address problems. (Efficiency: one person's problem becomes everyone's solution.)

    Broadly, I'm usually pretty bad at on-the-spot individual solutions. I prefer global solutions. And if one person's difficulty is presented to me, and I have time to incorporate that problem into the larger strategy for the class as a whole, then I'll be able to come up with something, maybe something good. This tends to mean that, say, if students are looking for individual support, they won't obviously get it, but something will happen to the overall strategy in the class that may (much like a butterfly in the Amazon makes a tornado) yield longer term results.

    Or not.

    But generally speaking, if the student is already working on their own solution, I'll probably support them and enjoy saying something with them about what's going on. I admire and enjoy independence in students, and I get involved. It's a little bit backwards as far as teacher-student relationships stereotypically go, but there it is.

    Harsh, I suppose. But then, different teachers provide different experiences. What kind of help do you want?

  3. #13
    Senior Member run's Avatar
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    The other thing I'm wondering is: When you get to college, does being the positive-helpful guy go out the window? Should you have learned how to learn by now?

  4. #14
    Just a statistic rhinosaur's Avatar
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    I'm a TA for upper college level chemistry, and I usually try to put on the patient-positive-helpful pants. The only exception is when I get emailed easy questions that I know they can figure out on their own... I will usually wait a half-day or so before I answer those.

    I had a student this last semester who came to my office every single time I had office hours, and would stay the entire time. Essentially using me as a free tutor. I was happy to help, especially if it meant he would learn more, or gain an extracurricular interest in the topics... but man, it was frustrating to see him struggle. He wasn't that bright, maybe didn't know the prerequisites well enough, or had an undiagnosed LD or something, so he made frequent mistakes. I really became invested in his progress, so it was kind of painful to watch.

    Of course it could also have been that I simply didn't know how to teach to him.

  5. #15
    Senior Member run's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhinosaur View Post
    I had a student this last semester who came to my office every single time I had office hours, and would stay the entire time. Essentially using me as a free tutor.
    K but did you get annoyed when he came unprepared, and did you let it show?

    If your student's failing to do something that was taught on the first day, would you get irritated? Every time?

    I'd say, justified or not, that it's not beneficial to bark at your kids

  6. #16
    Just a statistic rhinosaur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by run View Post
    K but did you get annoyed when he came unprepared, and did you let it show?

    If your student's failing to do something that was taught on the first day, would you get irritated? Every time?

    I'd say, justified or not, that it's not beneficial to bark at your kids
    No, he was usually reasonably prepared, as far as I could tell, which was one of the reasons I was happy to help. In fact, if we came across a question he hadn't prepared for, he would often suggest that we come back to it during our next session. In contrast, for other courses in other semesters, I've had students who would come and expect me to give them answers. When that happens, I give them only as much as they need to do the work, and then step back to let them work, move on to the next problem, or whatever.

    I think you might be misinterpreting my earlier post... I don't think I've ever barked at a student. I got frustrated with this guy's work, because it seemed like he was making little progress for the amount of time and effort he was spending on the material. I never shared these frustrations with him, because I felt that he was getting just as frustrated. I don't know what it was... maybe I just didn't have that connection with him.

  7. #17
    Senior Member run's Avatar
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    I'm talking about whether its ok or not to be frustrated with a student's unpreparedness. Yeah, its a waste of the professor's time, but the professor chose to deal with that when he chose to become a teacher.

  8. #18
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    I call dual-seeking behaviour.


    And an INTJ may pretend to be ENTP when he's in front of class, but one-on-one he's about as likely to be an ENFJ as he is to give you a big fat kiss on the lips.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    And an INTJ may pretend to be ENTP when he's in front of class, but one-on-one he's about as likely to be an ENFJ as he is to give you a big fat kiss on the lips.
    This. Totally.

    I get annoyed when people don't prepare for class. I don't take it out on them, but I make sure that they're aware of how I feel. Often, I'd comment something like "It's useless coming to tutorials if you don't even read through the prac." or "I'm not going to give you the answers, that's not what this is for". However, for things that require conceptual understanding, I'm perfectly happy coming in for hours that I'm not paid for, just to make sure that they "get it" and won't fail out of the class.

    Generally I could be harsher on them, and the guy who runs the biochemistry course TELLS me this. He wants me to run the class like a drill sergeant. I also feel like a pushover for not giving people deadlines that they have to meet for certain parts of the class, e.g. "you have to have this done by 3pm". I do, however, walk around and LOOK at them if they're not focussed. I also continually ask them where they're at. This keeps them on (more or less) the same page.

    I'm told that I'm approachable, that none of my students fear me. I hold back on cutting remarks, and always frame my teaching as "concern". However, I don't get too close to them. They're aware that they can talk to me about the syllabus, about the class and various career/class/major options. As far as my personal life/view goes, that's completely out of the question.

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