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  1. #1
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    Default What would Socrates do?

    What would Socrates do?

    Socrates sought to save Athenian society by making it self-critical.

    Imagine that you and many other colorblind people live on this isolated island. All inhabitants are colorblind from birth and know nothing about color; there is no word for color in their vocabulary.

    Assume Fred is a health nut who exercises constantly and is always advising others to start a strict exercise routine for their health. Fred is well liked but most people on the island think that he over emphasizes the value of exercise.

    One day after pursuing a specific exercises routine Fred become conscious of color. He is shocked and frightened and discontinues the exercise. Many weeks later curiosity gets the best of him and he returns to the exercise routine and there again appears the perception of color.

    Fred experiments with this matter and concludes that when he performs the afore mentioned exercise routine he can perceive color constantly.

    If you were Fred would you inform your friends and acquaintances of this occurrence?

    How would you explain this perception to others?

    How would others respond to your efforts to explain what happened?

    I suspect most individuals would walk away from such seeming non-sense with a shrug and a grin. Suppose some of those making the proscribed effort found it to be a bore and a struggle and lost enthusiasm.

    Does this little game of make-believe give you a better appreciation of why the Athenians executed Socrates for “corrupting the youth”?

  2. #2
    DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
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    isn't there an HG Wells Novel that's something like this?

  3. #3
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    SEW-CRATES!!!


  4. #4
    Senior Member Feops's Avatar
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    Do you think up these yourself or copy/paste them from a website?

    They seem scripted is all.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by coberst View Post
    Does this little game of make-believe give you a better appreciation of why the Athenians executed Socrates for “corrupting the youth”?
    Socrates was executed because he caused the Athenians emotional pain - the emotional pain of cognitive dissonance.

    And indeed Socrates chose the hemlock rather than recant.

    And by drinking the hemlock, he drove home the cognitive dissonance in the minds of the Athenians and in the mind of Western culture.

    The gift Socrates gave us is cognitive dissonance.

    But the gift is accompanied by emotional pain - and so just as the Athenians were ambivalent about Socrates, so are we.

    For instance, I cause cognitive dissonance in those who believe and practise the cult of MBTI.

    And so naturally I am regarded at least with ambivalence by the cultists, and perhaps hostility.

    But cognitive dissonance forms the very basis of Western philosophy and those who deny it here are betraying their own culture.

    Other cultures, for instance, reject cognitive dissonance, such as the Islamic culture.

    In Islam apostates are executed.

    Because in Islam cognitive dissonance offends the muslim sensibility - how often have you heard muslims tell us they are 'offended'?

    And because we can bear the emotional pain of cognitive dissonance, we have created the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

    And because the Islamists have rejected the emotional pain of cognitive dissonance, they have publicly rejected the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

  6. #6
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    Victor


    I have often wondered about the source of cognitive dissonance. I have tried to find it in psychology but have been unsuccessful. I wonder just how much cognitive dissonance a body can stand. It appears to me that ideologues would suffocate on it. The present problem with torture must present real problems for those who are sensitive to CD; how do the “patriots” manage?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by coberst View Post
    Victor


    I have often wondered about the source of cognitive dissonance. I have tried to find it in psychology but have been unsuccessful. I wonder just how much cognitive dissonance a body can stand. It appears to me that ideologues would suffocate on it. The present problem with torture must present real problems for those who are sensitive to CD; how do the “patriots” manage?
    Precisely.

    I was listening to Ayaan Hirsi Ali on Youtube the other night. And she was saying that she wanted to maximise the cognitive dissonance within Islam. In the hope that the emotional pain would cause them to reassess their values.

    Of course they may reassess their values or they may slaughter her as they slaughtered her friend and colleague, Theo van Gogh, leaving a note pinned to his chest with a dagger, saying that Ayaan Hirsi Ali will be next.

    So Ayaan Hirsi Ali may succeed in changing Islamic values or she may be executed like Socrates.

    But whatever happens, she deserves our support.

  8. #8
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    why force people to see something if they dont care to? Simply show them the way and let them decide if its worth it.

    Cognitive dissonance seems like it would be harder for Dominant Te and Fe(Js) types to swallow because it messes with there ability to make a decision. For dominant Ti and Fi types, all we think about are cognitive dissonance. How can you manage to understand something if you dont attempt to see both sides?

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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    ...all we think about are cognitive dissonance. How can you manage to understand something if you dont attempt to see both sides?
    My dear Poki, cognitive dissonance begins with seeing both sides.

    And then you compare one side with the other to see if they are consonant or dissonant.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    My dear Poki, cognitive dissonance begins with seeing both sides.

    And then you compare one side with the other to see if they are consonant or dissonant.
    Yes, the comparison is the internal judging that we dominant Ti/Fi spend the most time doing and it is driven or supported by perception. That is why I dont try to make a decision for others, but allow them the choice by letting them understand both sides. We do this because this is what we do for ourselves, we have to see and understand both sides before we can make a decision.

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