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  1. #81
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Pursuit of happiness.

    I think that's pretty natural for most people? Except depressed and pessimisitc people perhaps, their loss. :>
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  2. #82
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Yup, it does presume, as it's from the theistic side. What if reality is turmoil, chaos, how do you figure out which side to 'fight' for? Against? How does the 'right path' come to you?
    How do I determine my actions? I tend to use game theory and a mix of utilitarian and liberal principles, using my own set of heuristics as preferences.

    On the other hand, "pick a side" is a human programmed response. Since I tend to look down on such views I'd argue that even the concept "picking a side" is a symptom similar to religion - the need to "pick" the right course, the right action. Not because it is right, but because it must be picked. It's just justification for the actions we take... post-action rationalization.

    So, I believe in pre-decision making rationality, and that's the standard I use for myself.

  3. #83
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Yup, it does presume, as it's from the theistic side. What if reality is turmoil, chaos, how do you figure out which side to 'fight' for? Against? How does the 'right path' come to you?
    By whatever moral values our particular circumstances have convinced us to believe are correct. We acknowledge that these are still just arbitrary principles, but the practical survival value in doing basic moral things like learning to coexist peacefully with others should be intuitively obvious.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  4. #84
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    First:
    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    We just don't think that God as a conscious entity as described by popular religion is very plausible. We doubt very seriously that God is a conscious entity of any sort, but we can't explain the beginning of the universe and we don't claim to know that any force higher than humanity does not exist. We don't claim to have solved the problem of causation.
    Later:
    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Anyone who claims absolute knowledge of anything besides the existence of his own thoughts is mistaken.
    Just a small attempt at clarity so I can follow you: Can you speak for all these other atheists, or do you really only know your own thoughts on the matter? Or is the latter definition theoretically sound but unrealistic in the practical sense?

    (It sounds like you're saying you can only ever speak for yourself, but you're still speaking for others.)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #85
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    I sometimes catch myself doing the 'we' thing as well. Sometimes so easy to see a group in which you are categorized as one unity that for some reason must all be exactly the same.

    Silly, but not worthy of berating someone over on a forum, when his intentions are clear and easy to understand.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  6. #86
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    I sometimes catch myself doing the 'we' thing as well. Sometimes so easy to see a group in which you are categorized as one unity that for some reason must all be exactly the same.

    Silly, but not worthy of berating someone over on a forum, when his intentions are clear and easy to understand.
    I don't think 'berating' is the correct term to appropriately appraise the matter.

    It's a point of clarification. It's doubly important as his perspective is hinged on the inability of the individual to 'think' for anyone beyond himself.


    (An ironic point of contention for us to debate, no?)

  7. #87
    Senior Member Feops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    While atheists are distrusting, hard and cold with narrowed eyes. And they don't trust what their own parents tell them.

    And a distrusting person can't be trusted.

    And trust is the very basis of society.

    So atheists are social enemies No. 1. They willfully undermine the very trust society is based on.
    This thread has been vic-rolled.

  8. #88
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Hmm, he seemed to be crystal clear on that.

    Anyone who claims absolute knowledge of anything besides the existence of his own thoughts is mistaken.
    This is a very clear opinion. And from this you can conclude that his earlier post where he presented his opinion about atheism in the 'we' form, he was merely presenting his own opinion. But feels that his view matches Atheism as a group. Because it is Atheism in general that is discussed in this thread, not peoples personal views, it is easy to conform to generalising accidentally and use 'we' instead of 'I'.

    So, in my opinion it's still berating, wether it is intentional or not. I don't know what else he could input to make his statement any clearer.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  9. #89
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    Hmm, he seemed to be crystal clear on that.



    This is a very clear opinion. And from this you can conclude that his earlier post where he presented his opinion about atheism in the 'we' form, he was merely presenting his own opinion. But feels that his view matches Atheism as a group. Because it is Atheism in general that is discussed in this thread, not peoples personal views, it is easy to conform to generalising accidentally and use 'we' instead of 'I'.

    So, in my opinion it's still berating. I don't know what else he could input to make his statement any clearer.
    Haha.

    The irony of debating individual perspective hinged on the inherent improbability of fully comprehending external perspective is a deeply satisfying quandary.

  10. #90
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    The irony of debating individual perspective hinged on the inherent improbability of fully comprehending external perspective is a deeply satisfying quandary.
    Curiously, even if we only can know our own thoughts, we are still able to talk to each other

    I think SW's post should be prefaced with, "by definition, we". I don't entirely agree, but it does put it in context. The key part of it is that the lack of theistic belief is not a positive assertion on any belief.

    Where I disagree is that there are atheists who can believe in something, or actively disbelieve. So, it's true that "we", as atheists, cannot state those things (as compared to a common set of theistic beliefs)... but individuals who are atheist can.

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