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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    Is this in reference to the cosmic microwave background?
    Well, wherever I stand everything is accelerating away from me.

    However in a local area, at the present time, we are held together by gravity.

    And indeed there was no explosion - rather it is space that is expanding.

    But space is expanding everywhere. It is not expanding from a centre.

    If you are a Believer, if you believe in the Big Bang, you might like to show me any evidence whatsoever as to where the Big Bang originated.

    But until that time I shall remain a Big Bang atheist.

  2. #42
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Well, wherever I stand everything is accelerating away from me.

    However in a local area, at the present time, we are held together by gravity.

    And indeed there was no big bang, there was no explosion - rather it is space that is expanding.

    But space is expanding everywhere. It is not expanding from a centre.

    If you are a Believer, if you believe in the Big Bang, you might like to show me any evidence whatsoever as to where the Big Bang originated.

    But until that time I shall remain a Big Bang atheist.
    I see what you are saying, however just because space expands from every conceivable point does not mean there was not a "center" in the beginning.

    For example if you think of the surface of the earth as a point in space, and if the earth was "expanding" it would indeed expand in all directions, however if reversed that process, it would simply "contract" in all directions until US and China were essentially "next" to each other, and for all we could tell they were occupying 1 point.

    In any sphere, there is still a center despite the apparent absence of one for any being on the surface. You cannot point to a location on the "surface" of space and say "here is the center," true; however as I have shown, that doesn't mean there wasn't a single point and location of "creation" to begin with.



  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    I see what you are saying, however just because space expands from every conceivable point does not mean there was not a "center" in the beginning.

    For example if you think of the surface of the earth as a point in space, and if the earth was "expanding" it would indeed expand in all directions, however if reversed that process, it would simply "contract" in all directions until US and China were essentially "next" to each other, and for all we could tell they were occupying 1 point.

    In any sphere, there is still a center despite the apparent absence of one for any being on the surface. You cannot point to a location on the "surface" of space and say "here is the center," true; however as I have shown, that doesn't mean there wasn't a single point and location of "creation" to begin with.
    This is true.

    And if we compare the two dimensional surface of a sphere to the three dimensional universe, we can say, metaphorically that the universe does have an 'inner' centre.

    And so just as mathematics has imaginary numbers, we can say the universe has an imaginary centre.

    And just as we can say a watch has a watchmaker, we can say the universe has an imaginary universemaker. And let us call our imaginary universemaker, God.

    And so I can see no reason not to call our imaginary centre of the Universe, the home of God.

    And so we will have our imaginary friend dwelling at the imaginary centre of the Universe.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    If you are a Believer, if you believe in the Big Bang, you might like to show me any evidence whatsoever as to where the Big Bang originated.

    But until that time I shall remain a Big Bang atheist.
    I am a Big Bang agnostic.

  5. #45
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    This is true.

    And if we compare the two dimensional surface of a sphere to the three dimensional universe, we can say, metaphorically that the universe does have an 'inner' centre.

    And so just as mathematics has imaginary numbers, we can say the universe has an imaginary centre.

    And just as we can say a watch has a watchmaker, we can say the universe has an imaginary universemaker. And let us call our imaginary universemaker, God.

    And so I can see no reason not to call our imaginary centre of the Universe, the home of God.

    And so we will have our imaginary friend dwelling at the imaginary centre of the Universe.
    Technically, the inner centre is more commonly referred to as "the past."

    But I don't want to dismiss your equivalence of God and the Universe. I don't think it is that far a stretch to view them as one and the same, and I certainly cannot prove that comparison wrong.



  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    I am a Big Bang agnostic.
    Perhaps I can convert you to Big Bang atheism.

    For there was no explosion. Things did not explode away from each other.

    Rather each thing remained stationary and space expanded between them.

    And space continues to expand today at an accelerating rate.

    But I don't want to leave you bereft. So rather than being a Big Bang atheist you might become a Big Expansion believer.

    And believers are much nicer than atheists, don't you think?

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    Technically, the inner centre is more commonly referred to as "the past."

    But I don't want to dismiss your equivalence of God and the Universe. I don't think it is that far a stretch to view them as one and the same, and I certainly cannot prove that comparison wrong.
    Good on you, mate.

    And indeed I am tempted to make a repast of the past.

  8. #48
    Senior Member Jeremy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Wrath does seem fairly important to most religions.
    I think that lies in the fact that mankind is so addicted to violence, and therefore tends to glorify it. But I don't glorify it, and I don't think it should be glorified.
    "Can you set me free from this dark inner world? Save me now, last beats in the soul.."

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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    And believers are much nicer than atheists, don't you think?
    Why do you think that? Because believers stop asking questions?

  10. #50
    Senior Member Jeremy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    Why do you think that? Because believers stop asking questions?
    If believers stopped asking questions, there would be no atheists.
    "Can you set me free from this dark inner world? Save me now, last beats in the soul.."

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