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  1. #131
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bananatrombones View Post
    Nobody trusts anybody anymore anyway. Your distrust is just another corpse on the fire.

    LOL
    The future is for the unafraid.

  2. #132
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrME View Post
    Funny, my psychologist friend says that it's a valid test. Are you a psychologist?
    I have been to my Psych Dept and they tell me it is not a valid and reliable test.

    And they tell me, if it were a valid and reliable test, it would not be self administered. It would not be administered by the unqualified. And it would not be administered by the unqualified to other people.

    They tell me it appears to work in the same way astrology works.

    In fact they told me it is astrology for the undergraduate. And it is very popular, particularly in the United States.

    But what I find most fascinating is the cognitive dissonance between the claims of MBTI and the reality.

    It's true that cognitive dissonance is emotionally painful. But then again, it is like a breath of fresh air.

    And I do think it is an interesting question as to why so many people are attracted to MBTI.

    I mean I am interested in why people are attracted in very large numbers to astrology. So I am interested in why people are attracted to the more up-market MBTI.

    Really the question is why are people attracted to religions and cults? And what do you sacrifice when you become a member of a cult? And what is the history of a particular cult? And where is it likely to take you?

  3. #133
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post

    Really the question is why are people attracted to religions and cults? And what do you sacrifice when you become a member of a cult? And what is the history of a particular cult? And where is it likely to take you?
    Boredom. Other potential cures for boredom. Somebody was bored and noticed the others were too. To another, once on gets bored of it.
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

  4. #134
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    And if you can't trust another Jaguar, who can you trust?
    Vic, what the hell are you smoking down under?
    Kangaroo crap?

    If you think MBTI is nonsense, why don't you have a blank space next to your "type" under your join date?

    By the way, have you heard of two guys-- Harrison and Bramson?
    They wrote a book entitled: The Art of Thinking.
    The future is for the unafraid.

  5. #135
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    If you think MBTI is nonsense, why don't you have a blank space next to your "type" under your join date?
    I have never done a MBTI test. In fact the letters have been assigned to me by a member who gave me no test and who doesn't even know me. But felt very confident to say I am an INFP.

    This sounds like pure nonsense to me. What does it seem like to you?

  6. #136
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    MBTI purports to be a personality test, but it's not.

    MBTI is a lie.

    And the only interesting question that remains is -

    Why do tens of millions of people believe a lie?
    I'd love to be able to answer you, but then I remember how you've told us that you don't intend any logical meaning in your posts, so I'll just consider this one nonsensical and carry on.

    I'd advise others to do the same.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  7. #137
    Senior Member matmos's Avatar
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    Which part is non-sensical? It seems a fairly straightforward point he's making.

    Thanks for your advice, it is noted.


  8. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    I'd love to be able to answer you, but then I remember how you've told us that you don't intend any logical meaning in your posts, so I'll just consider this one nonsensical and carry on.

    I'd advise others to do the same.
    The problem is an interesting one -

    It is not so much that most of us aren't able to hold two conflicting ideas in our head at the same time, it's that we don't want to.

    And we don't want to because holding two conflicting ideas causes cognitive dissonance. And cognitive dissonance is emotionally painful. So naturally we wish to avoid it unless we can see a greater reward.

    For instance to those inside Scientology, it makes perfect sense. And for those outside Scientolgy, it makes nonsense.

    But if one were to have the ideas of Scientology in your head at the same time as you had the ideas of those outside Scientology, it would cause massive cognitive dissonance and massive emotional pain.

    So what we find is that people either believe in Scientology or they don't. Very few are able to do both at once.

    And it's the same with MBTI.

    To those inside it makes sense and to those outside it is nonsense.

    But very few are able to be inside and outside at the same time.

    And incidentally, you are right Sim about logic because the Law of the Excluded Middle says that to be inside and outside at the same time is a contradiction.

    And I notice you try to catch me in contradiction or you flatly accuse me of being illogical.

    And in a sense you are right. I do try to be inside and outside at the same time. However the price I pay for this is cognitive dissonance and the accompanying emotional pain.

    But worse, I break the social taboo of mixing the inner with the outer.

    And whenever I do this, I can expect to hear a word from the taboo-police.

    So I want you to continue to read every word I write in case I break a taboo.

  9. #139
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    My life is full of constant cognitive dissonance. Being able to see, and quite often, believe most sides of many issues is an uncomfortable and confusing feeling. But it's a gratifying sorrow because it forces me to simultaneously realize my own limitations, while celebrating my infinite knowledge of all things. Most people need a reason to make sense out of life. To make life palatable and purposeful. To celebrate their knowledge while avoiding their limitations - or vice versa. Whether that belief is Yahweh, Zeus, Science, Love, Darwinism, or the number 42.
    Thank you once again, Victor. I shall continue to read every word you write.

  10. #140
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    It is not so much that most of us aren't able to hold two conflicting ideas in our head at the same time, it's that we don't want to.

    And we don't want to because holding two conflicting ideas causes cognitive dissonance. And cognitive dissonance is emotionally painful. So naturally we wish to avoid it unless we can see a greater reward.
    I can't be certain if most people do or don't.

    And it's the same with MBTI.

    To those inside it makes sense and to those outside it is nonsense.

    But very few are able to be inside and outside at the same time.

    And in a sense you are right. I do try to be inside and outside at the same time. However the price I pay for this is cognitive dissonance and the accompanying emotional pain.
    I feel that this exercise in holding multiple points of views becomes a true test of self (and, 'worth' whatever emotional pain/cognitive dissonance) when one forces self to choose WHAT topics to exercise this with. It's nothing formidable, nor pain-inducing, picking topics that are of TRIVIAL matter, without emotional/subjective investment in the first place. Some don't really care to be personally invested in MBTI, for them, holding two conflicting points of view is no great feat. Nor something that should be applauded.

    Now, take for instance, say, I dunno, if you had strong beliefs about the horrors of...Islam. Exercise this cognitive dissonance, be inside and out. My hat will tip to you then. That's a testament to seeking truth in knowledge.

    Let me give you an example:

    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Hint: separate yourself/myself/ourselves from discussions of ideas...and you'll fare much better.
    ....what makes you think I (personally) am opposed to the UDHR?
    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Because you are making classic arguments against it.

    And this is not a trivial matter.

    So either you are a game player or you are an Islamist.

    The first is repulsive and the second is dangerous.
    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    In grade 9, for an English class exercise on writing an argumentative essay, I handed in a paper supporting the Mafia because it promoted family values....what's your point?
    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    It seems you are not fair dinkum.

    And it seems to be chronic with you.

    And you have no insight into your condition.

    And you seem to think no one else has either.

    All of these are signs of pathology.

    But what is interesting is that you don't seem to understand that your behaviour invalidates what you say.

    You are so blatant that I wonder -

    Has no one pointed this out to you before?

    Practice what you preach, maybe? You don't like this practice in others (and thus, dichotomize them with distaste), and counter that I cannot hold more than one point of view, and when I *do*, it makes me 'not fair' or pathological. But...lo and behold....when *you* hold it, for trivial matters, no less, it's a great and commendable feat of cognitive dissonance.
    Or we can just write it off as another of your episodes of selective (triviality-based) cognitive dissonance....huh.

    Razzle, dazzle me, Victor.
    But only after you've broken all the mirrors,
    While conversing with vanity,
    And the smoke has dissipated.

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