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  1. #11
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    i have to pee badly. am i excused from the barfight?

    btw: atheists, please get some individuality. don't talk like you are homogeneous group that holds common values. makes you look like a bunch of conformists, which is a pre-rational thing, btw. what's individuality again? well, it's that intrinsic thing, that is not defined by mere comparison to what it is not.

  2. #12
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nanook View Post
    ...we claim they are "just" metaphors for human life...
    This claim is only made by those who don't know what a metaphor is.

    A metaphor is a comparison of relationships and takes the form of -

    A is to B as C is to D.

    Metaphors form the basis of all language and mathematics.

    And so far, no algorithm has been able to produce comprehensible metaphors.

    So far, it is only us, homo sapiens, humanity, that can make metaphors.

  3. #13
    Oberon
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    What's a metaphor you?

  4. #14
    Senior Member Aleph-One's Avatar
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    Why would three mean the rest of the bulk of atheistdom wouldn't want to get rid of the Bible?
    ....
    Sorry, I was part of no consensus before; but I feel obligated to nitpick an irrational argument when I see one. Three out of a million, or 500,000, or 10,000 is not statistically significant, is it?
    We weren't talking about the bulk. We were talking about "the atheist in question". The claim, which I took to mean "an atheist who is offended by the Bible will want to take it away" can be dispensed with by a counterexample. A claim which says "atheists who are offended by the Bible are trying to take it away" cannot be dispensed with by a counterexample (since it is intended to be a claim about tendencies of a group, rather than the behavior of each member of a group), but that claim was not made. Supposing it had been made, I would not have offered the rebuttal I gave, but simply demanded evidence that this was the case.

    The argument was not irrational.

    Now, I'm going to try to leave this a second time. Please refrain from hurling another rhetorical bottle at the back of my head while I do so.
    Aleph-One, you look like the kind of person who would spend his spare time building a giant robot to hold the government for ransom. -Some Guy on the Internet

  5. #15
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleph-One View Post
    ....Now, I'm going to try to leave this a second time.
    I didn't know I was desirable enough to drag you back in.
    (You know how to make a girl feel good.)

    Please refrain from hurling another rhetorical bottle at the back of my head while I do so.
    If I fill it with something good like Goldschlager or Absolut Vanilla vodka, would you reconsider?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #16
    Oberon
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    *AHEM*

    I said, "What's a metaphor you?"

    EDIT: I'm a little frustrated. Normally threads derail more easily than this.

  7. #17
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    *AHEM* I said, "What's a metaphor you?"

    EDIT: I'm a little frustrated. Normally threads derail more easily than this.
    Maybe you're losing your touch.

    I mean, you've been gone awhile -- maybe you're out of practice.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #18
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleph-One View Post
    I doubt you'll find an atheist who will argue against that point.
    I would, but you mix two concepts here - the belief that the belief should die off and using force to make an ideology die off. Generally I only bring up the point when I hear that my beliefs are against the 'truth'... free game to tell them why their beliefs should be removed from the 'truth' pool entirely.

    (To understand my POV, I hold a bayesian view of knowledge.)

    There is no threat of this.
    There is always the threat. However, I don't think Christians have much to fear at the present time, just as I find those that have the 'majority persecution complex'... out of touch.

    However, 'no threat' and 'extremely small' threat are different... time scales, tail end events, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by nanook View Post
    btw: atheists, please get some individuality.
    All definitions are groupings. Anyway, you do realize the irony in grouping all atheists as required individuality...? No need to stereotype me either.

  9. #19
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby
    Anyway, you do realize the irony in grouping all atheists
    just those who are identified with the label (and it's meaning, which is mostly an irrational believe). they are/form a group by means of their own identification.

    thinking/believing that there is no god is one thing (or no god as portrayed by mythic religion), being comfortable with calling one self a-theist is another thing. i realize there is no other word, so i forgive usage of the word in discussions, but when they write it on their t-shirts or create clubs or supersmart youtube circles ...

    if you really have to identify with a position on the matter, it would prove style to call yourself something like rational or rationalist rather that antichristtheist. then eventually you will even understand that rationality can dismiss the mythic god, but not the holy aspects or reality, the mystic view. and you wont even have to get yourself a whole new set of t-shirts.

  10. #20
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nanook View Post
    just those who are identified with the label (and it's meaning, which is mostly an irrational believe). they are/form a group by means of their own identification.
    All atheists are atheists, and as an atheist I will have commonality with other atheists, by virtue of the shared definition.

    being comfortable with calling one self a-theist is another thing. i realize there is no other word, so i forgive usage of the word in discussions, but when they write it on their t-shirts or create clubs or supersmart youtube circles ...
    If the norm is theistic belief, then the absence of such a stance is a stance in itself. The disagreement of policy/influence due to the theistic belief is also a pro-active position for any atheist to take. The definition does not limit such groupings or identities, especially not when they serve a real and tangible goal.

    And I'm saying that despite how much I dislike 'positive' atheists.

    then eventually you will even understand that rationality can dismiss the mythic god, but not the holy aspects or reality, the mystic view. and you wont even have to get yourself a whole new set of t-shirts.
    That's irrelevant to my positive set of beliefs, especially considering I am distinctly against the 'mystic view' of reality.

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