Ghosts and spirits

[ThinkingAboutIt]

Where is this creator and eternity. I need some words with him/her.

The Creator is in heaven, eternity is yet to come, but it is guaranteed for all one way or another.

Just speak. "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me."

 

[swordpath]

^Right, the Bible says that, but just like Ghosts, I've never seen or felt him/them. Your theory is just as plausible as the Ghost theory. Does it make yours wrong? Does it make ghosts unreal? Nah, but you can't really state your view as fact or expect others to believe what you do. Just sayin'.

 

[CrystalViolet]

What about the holy ghost?

 

[ThinkingAboutIt]

^Right, the Bible says that, but just like Ghosts, I've never seen or felt him/them. Your theory is just as plausible as the Ghost theory. Does it make yours wrong? Does it make ghosts unreal? Nah, but you can't really state your view as fact or expect others to believe what you do. Just sayin'.

The bible does say it. But an aspect missing in that statement is that God Himself, via the Holy Spirit wrote that bible. It is His word, and His word is truth.

"All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 2 Tim 3:16

"Inspiration" in Greek means: theopneustos

"inspired by God" (Theos, "God," pneo, "to breathe"), is used in 2Ti 3:16, of the Scriptures as distinct from non-inspired writings.

Wycliffe, Tyndale, Coverdale and the Great Bible have the rendering "inspired of God."

 

[Feops]

I've points I'd like to add but I think the original topic has been derailed.

 

[CrystalViolet]

Thinkingaboutit,
Seeing as you believe in a God and religion in which a ghost/spirit is an integral part, it seems some what contradictory, that you claim there are no ghosts.

 

[King sns]

I've points I'd like to add but I think the original topic has been derailed.

No, please do.

 

[Serendipity]

I've been through stuff.
And I play the "I got nuts and whacked my head apart until there wasn't anything to whack anymore"-card.
Aka. I was frightened by myself, of myself and therefore experienced things out of the ordinary and had a "trip" that was released from my brain due to too much stress and panic/terror. And therefore, it was all in my head.

I don't do belief. I just don't know.

 

[Feops]

Ok then.

The bible does say it. But an aspect missing in that statement is that God Himself, via the Holy Spirit wrote that bible. It is His word, and His word is truth.

The bible was written by men, compiled from many sources over various times in an age when most people were illiterate, translated from older languages, its content selectively interpreted or ignored by various sects, with protocol that often directly conflicts with modern facts and clashes with modern culture (stoning? women's rights?). A claim that the bible is true because the bible is true is nonsensical. Absolute truth would not need a lens of perception, would not conflict with what we can prove, and would not be subject to shifting ethics.

 

[Kyrielle]

What is your feeling on this topic? How would you describe a ghost or spirit? Do you believe in them? Have you seen one? If so, what is their purpose of being on earth? (And whatever other thing you'd like to say about them.)

I don't believe in them exactly. But I do believe there's weird shit that people leave behind in places. I think places have memories of what lived in them, and maybe, just maybe, sometimes something happens to "reality" and other people can see that memory? I don't know.

Sometimes I think of time as a tight spiral that bumps into itself on occassion and that bumping into itself results in weird things happening to people.

Or maybe it's one reality rubbing against another.

Or maybe it's not real at all.

The problem with ghosts and things, that I have, is that you can't exactly prove their existence objectively. I mean you can suggest their existence with odd things that happen to different kinds of equipment, but there's no proof that clearly says "This is a ghost. There it is. If you turn it around, you'll notice you can see the room through it." Most of the time, the odd happenings to equipment (even voices) only tell people that "Something weird is happening here."

That said, I've seen some odd things that couldn't be explained scientifically. The mere fact that they cannot be explained makes me reluctant to jump to conclusions and makes me wonder if I imagined it.

 

[Wiley45]

I'm very interested in spirits and ghost stories, but my current state is one of skepticism.

I heard a story on NPR about a family whose house was haunted by a ghost. They were seeing strange things and all of them were waking up at night screaming because the ghost was jumping on them, etc. It seemed very real because all the family members were reporting the same type of experiences. Turns out it was a gas leak in their house, and they were all hallucinating. I like to remember this story because it can be easy to jump to conclusions, especially about things that are out of the ordinary.

On the same track as the psychic story that was mentioned, I have a very rational, practical atheist friend whose sister claims to have psychic powers. Their grandfather passed away, and the "psychic" sister told the atheist sister that the grandfather's spirit visited her and told her to look in the atheist's attic, describing specific personal items in hidden places. The attic was padlocked and the "psychic" had never been in there, but when the atheist checked upstairs, the items were there, just as described. My atheist friend was a little freaked out and still does not know what to make of it. Strange.

 

[01011010]

The possibility is slight.

I'd join an organization that hunts them in an attempt to gain empirical data. However, it's not important enough knowledge to subject myself to the company of new people, in close quarters.

 

[CrystalViolet]

I don't believe in them exactly. But I do believe there's weird shit that people leave behind in places. I think places have memories of what lived in them, and maybe, just maybe, sometimes something happens to "reality" and other people can see that memory? I don't know.

Sometimes I think of time as a tight spiral that bumps into itself on occassion and that bumping into itself results in weird things happening to people.

Or maybe it's one reality rubbing against another.

Or maybe it's not real at all.

The problem with ghosts and things, that I have, is that you can't exactly prove their existence objectively. I mean you can suggest their existence with odd things that happen to different kinds of equipment, but there's no proof that clearly says "This is a ghost. There it is. If you turn it around, you'll notice you can see the room through it." Most of the time, the odd happenings to equipment (even voices) only tell people that "Something weird is happening here."

That said, I've seen some odd things that couldn't be explained scientifically. The mere fact that they cannot be explained makes me reluctant to jump to conclusions and makes me wonder if I imagined it.

That's kinda how I see it.

 

[Oberon]

The possibility is slight.

The possibility is impossible to assess without additional data.

Unless you really meant "I am nearly convinced that I don't believe in ghosts"?

The latter, while subjective, is certainly a respectable point of view.

 

[Kalach]

I believe in vibrations.

It's all in your head, though. But there are vibrations.

When you can see in places or things the events that have occurred.


Like, for want of a better example, Auschwitz has ghosts, because when you see the shape of the place and recognise the function together with the history, then you see now (in inauthentic shadow) what was.



When I did once announce that I check under my bed every night before I sleep, a friend asked "But why? What do you expect to find?"

"I EXPECT TO FIND NOTHING!!!" I yelled. "If I find something, then that's it, buddy, RIGHT THERE! I'M FREAKIN RIGHT OUT RIGHT THERE!"

To date, nothing found. This is reassuring.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I'm very interested in spirits and ghost stories, but my current state is one of skepticism.


On the same track as the psychic story that was mentioned, I have a very rational, practical atheist friend whose sister claims to have psychic powers. Their grandfather passed away, and the "psychic" sister told the atheist sister that the grandfather's spirit visited her and told her to look in the atheist's attic, describing specific personal items in hidden places. The attic was padlocked and the "psychic" had never been in there, but when the atheist checked upstairs, the items were there, just as described. My atheist friend was a little freaked out and still does not know what to make of it. Strange.

I don't find this particulary convincing.

Few questions.

Do animals become ghosts when they die?
If the answer is No. Then at what stage of development did human being got the ability to become ghosts?
Why someone becomes ghost that roams around and scares people and some people don't? Someone made a estimate that in human history there was about 60 000 000 000 people on this planet. Even if one in the million becomes ghost there should be alot of them around.
Unless they have the ability to "flee" into outer space.
Why in some cultres people see much less ghosts then in some other cultures?

 

[Mole]

I don't find this particulary convincing.

Few questions.

Do animals become ghosts when they die?
If the answer is No. Then at what stage of development did human being got the ability to become ghosts?
Why someone becomes ghost that roams around and scares people and some people don't? Someone made a estimate that in human history there was about 60 000 000 000 people on this planet. Even if one in the million becomes ghost there should be alot of them around.
Unless they have the ability to "flee" into outer space.
Why in some cultres people see much less ghosts then in some other cultures?

Probably for the same reason Hindus don't see visions of the Virgin Mary.

 

[01011010]

The possibility is impossible to assess without additional data.

Unless you really meant "I am nearly convinced that I don't believe in ghosts"?

The latter, while subjective, is certainly a respectable point of view.

There's no solid evidence to suggest humans possess spirits or souls. The formal definition of ghosts requires that to be true.

When people come upon unexplained phenomena, they may attribute the experience to the supernatural. The mind needs to make sense of data. Many of the occurrences can be explained with science, but those less educated in such a field, will default to the closest explanation offered within their realm of knowledge. It makes sense the association is made by certain individuals.

Nonetheless, like all unproven and supernatural claims, I maintain a 0.5% (out of 100) margin for existence.

 

[CrystalViolet]

I don't find this particulary convincing.

Few questions.

Do animals become ghosts when they die?
If the answer is No. Then at what stage of development did human being got the ability to become ghosts?
Why someone becomes ghost that roams around and scares people and some people don't? Someone made a estimate that in human history there was about 60 000 000 000 people on this planet. Even if one in the million becomes ghost there should be alot of them around.
Unless they have the ability to "flee" into outer space.
Why in some cultres people see much less ghosts then in some other cultures?

I really want to say I disagree with you, because I actually do...but can't offer evidence that animals do have spirits.
And ghost don't really roam around, Kyrielle described it well, right down to the fact it's all in my head (LOL!). You know that gut instinct you get when you know something terrible happened in a place? Or that, good things happened? You must get that feeling when out on the field? It's sort of like that.

 

[Oberon]

Nonetheless, like all unproven and supernatural claims, I maintain a 0.5% (out of 100) margin for existence.

Oh. So you assess this percentage as a "rule of thumb," an empirical axiom as it were, not based on any sort of statistical analysis, and you acknowledge that's what you're doing.

Fair enough.