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  1. #11
    rawr Costrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nunki View Post
    Consider the man who leaps in front of an automobile to push a child out of the way. He wasn't motivated by a desire for maximum happiness; in doing what he did, he placed a greater value in his fellow man than in pleasure itself. This is what happens with many of the dilemmas we face in life. We're given a choice between what is easy and pleasant, and what is likely to bring us much suffering. Often enough, we choose the latter, because we have some deeper principle than getting as much happiness as we possibly can.
    Could you not also say that he did it because if he didn't he would feel awful? Or he did it because of the pleasure he got from saving the child, however temporary (if he died).

    I still think the motivating factor is happiness. Though perhaps a broader definition than commonly used.
    "All humour has a foundation of truth."
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  2. #12
    AKA Nunki Polaris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Costrin View Post
    Could you not also say that he did it because if he didn't he would feel awful? Or he did it because of the pleasure he got from saving the child, however temporary (if he died).

    I still think the motivating factor is happiness. Though perhaps a broader definition than commonly used.
    I'm not denying that happiness is the motivator. What I'm denying is that happiness is the only motivator. If I were to offer you the opportunity to hook yourself up to that dopamine tank I mentioned earlier, I know you would refuse. You would be the happiest person on earth if you took the offer--but you would also be worthless, and that would stop you from doing it.
    [ Ni > Ti > Fe > Fi > Ne > Te > Si > Se ][ 4w5 sp/sx ][ RLOAI ][ IEI-Ni ]

  3. #13
    rawr Costrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nunki View Post
    I'm not denying that happiness is the motivator. What I'm denying is that happiness is the only motivator. If I were to offer you the opportunity to hook yourself up to that dopamine tank I mentioned earlier, I know you would refuse. You would be the happiest person on earth if you took the offer--but you would also be worthless, and that would stop you from doing it.
    You may think I would refuse, but I'm actually not so sure. I would carefully consider it. And right now, I'm not seeing a whole lot of downsides (well, an actual dopamine tank has plenty of downsides, but the happiness machine concept that I think you actually want to convey doesn't).
    "All humour has a foundation of truth."
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  4. #14
    AKA Nunki Polaris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Costrin View Post
    You may think I would refuse, but I'm actually not so sure. I would carefully consider it. And right now, I'm not seeing a whole lot of downsides (well, an actual dopamine tank has plenty of downsides, but the happiness machine concept that I think you actually want to convey doesn't).
    Okay, maybe you would do it. Most people wouldn't, though. I know I wouldn't.
    [ Ni > Ti > Fe > Fi > Ne > Te > Si > Se ][ 4w5 sp/sx ][ RLOAI ][ IEI-Ni ]

  5. #15
    rawr Costrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nunki View Post
    Okay, maybe you would do it. Most people wouldn't, though. I know I wouldn't.
    Hmm...

    What is your reasoning for not wanting to?
    "All humour has a foundation of truth."
    - Costrin

  6. #16
    AKA Nunki Polaris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Costrin View Post
    Hmm...

    What is your reasoning for not wanting to?
    A simple choice. A choice never has a reason.
    [ Ni > Ti > Fe > Fi > Ne > Te > Si > Se ][ 4w5 sp/sx ][ RLOAI ][ IEI-Ni ]

  7. #17
    rawr Costrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nunki View Post
    A simple choice. A choice never has a reason.
    Well that's not very helpful. :P
    "All humour has a foundation of truth."
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  8. #18
    AKA Nunki Polaris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Costrin View Post
    Well that's not very helpful. :P
    I desire not to step into a happiness machine. Is that helpful? I hope so, because it's the best I can do.
    [ Ni > Ti > Fe > Fi > Ne > Te > Si > Se ][ 4w5 sp/sx ][ RLOAI ][ IEI-Ni ]

  9. #19
    rawr Costrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nunki View Post
    I desire not to step into a happiness machine. Is that helpful? I hope so, because it's the best I can do.
    No, 'fraid not. I mean, didn't you basically just repeat what you've already said? I know that you don't want to enter a happiness machine, but that simple fact isn't much use to me without the reasoning behind it.

    If you can identify your reasons I'd like to hear them.

    I do have some hypotheses though if you want to hear them.
    "All humour has a foundation of truth."
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  10. #20
    AKA Nunki Polaris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Costrin View Post
    No, 'fraid not. I mean, didn't you basically just repeat what you've already said? I know that you don't want to enter a happiness machine, but that simple fact isn't much use to me without the reasoning behind it.

    If you can identify your reasons I'd like to hear them.

    I do have some hypotheses though if you want to hear them.
    I would be glad to give ear to your hypotheses, although they'll only be as right as any old hypothesis.
    [ Ni > Ti > Fe > Fi > Ne > Te > Si > Se ][ 4w5 sp/sx ][ RLOAI ][ IEI-Ni ]

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