If I may vent for a second.

[ThatGirl]

This is a short rant on humanity. Inspired by several talks I have had with friends over the past couple days.

We as people are stuck in our knowledge. We base our knowledge off of understandings through associations. We assume that this gives us an edge in life. The more connections we can make the greater our knowledge and understanding becomes. With understanding we are able to measure things like predictability and derive a sense of comfort that comes from eliminating the unknown.

What we don't understand is that this knowledge has little to do with actual understanding. Assumptions based on our understandings of the world can prove to be the most destructive and hurtful of all actions. It is based on fear that we hold people accountable to things we don't really stop to understand, and actions based on fear are almost never constructive, outside of animalistic survival. In casual circumstances, and these I define by not being life or death, when we act out our assumptions, it is because we fear that someone may be trying to deceive, or will cause harm, because we don't understand or can assume that similar patterns are not tied to individuals but recognized as truths of circumstance. These actions can also take place in assuming on a positive level, but as these actions only lead to self disappointment, lesser consequence, or at times productivity, I will just focus on the down side.

For a while I have wondered why more people do not look beyond circumstance and narrow understanding in order to view actual truth. Many intellectual people seem to be the most susceptible of all this pitfall. They base their understandings on logic, a half truth in existence, and patterns of repetition. Often logic leads to only understanding the past and holding the future accountable to its laws, boxing things into a predetermined path. Concrete is based on such logic (flawed in an evolving world).

I think it is unfortunate that our world holds such narrow views. I think it is unfortunate that we cannot understand people and life on a deeper level.

Things that I would hope the world will someday grasp. To never hold others accountable to our own understanding of their situations through patterns and association. To gain enough understanding and self strength to be able to trust without fear of deception. To be able to see each individual as a separate being and to show respect for their place. To find what is beauty and separate it from other associations. To recognize sadness and separate it from other associations and so on. To be able to admit fault without losing our identities. To see things for what they are not what we believe them to be. To give up excuses in entirety and represent truth.

Being able to start at any moment.

With out this understanding, our world creates so many situations under false assumptions. We busy ourselves trying to weave through circumstances that shouldn't or wouldn't even exist had people chosen to simply stop and look.

 

[Fluffywolf]

This is humanities greatest weakness, as well as its greatest strength.

Look at it from the completely other side. Suppose all your frustrations about this are suddenly 'fixed'. Suddenly truth is seen, suddenly everything falls into place...

And 'absolute truth' would be aquired everytime, every subject. Then our very ideals, our beliefs, would suddenly all be so clear. We would not have anything anymore to look out for. We would not have anything to work towards. We would have ultimatly peaked as a race on the evolutionary chain.

And that means, we would have no reason to exist anymore. And as we would live our lives, in perfect harmony and perfect truth. We would not know the difference between right and wrong. Because there would be no right and wrong. Only truth. And each and everyone of us will be completely the same. We would not be unique anymore. We would not have dreams anymore, no more purposes. We would not have a reason to open our eyes. We would not have will, we would not have freedom. We would not have subjectivity. We would not have self-integrity. No sense of identity. Nothing will be important, nothing will be unimportant. Everything will be exactly the same.

Would you rather want that instead? So, to get back on my first sentence in this post.

 

[professor goodstain]

This is a short rant on humanity. Inspired by several talks I have had with friends over the past couple days.

We as people are stuck in our knowledge. We base our knowledge off of understandings through associations. We assume that this gives us an edge in life. The more connections we can make the greater our knowledge and understanding becomes. With understanding we are able to measure things like predictability and derive a sense of comfort that comes from eliminating the unknown.

What we don't understand is that this knowledge has little to do with actual understanding. Assumptions based on our understandings of the world can prove to be the most destructive and hurtful of all actions. It is based on fear that we hold people accountable to things we don't really stop to understand, and actions based on fear are almost never constructive, outside of animalistic survival. In casual circumstances, and these I define by not being life or death, when we act out our assumptions, it is because we fear that someone may be trying to deceive, or will cause harm, because we don't understand or can assume that similar patterns are not tied to individuals but recognized as truths of circumstance. These actions can also take place in assuming on a positive level, but as these actions only lead to self disappointment, lesser consequence, or at times productivity, I will just focus on the down side.

For a while I have wondered why more people do not look beyond circumstance and narrow understanding in order to view actual truth. Many intellectual people seem to be the most susceptible of all this pitfall. They base their understandings on logic, a half truth in existence, and patterns of repetition. Often logic leads to only understanding the past and holding the future accountable to its laws, boxing things into a predetermined path. Concrete is based on such logic (flawed in an evolving world).

I think it is unfortunate that our world holds such narrow views. I think it is unfortunate that we cannot understand people and life on a deeper level.

Things that I would hope the world will someday grasp. To never hold others accountable to our own understanding of their situations through patterns and association. To gain enough understanding and self strength to be able to trust without fear of deception. To be able to see each individual as a separate being and to show respect for their place. To find what is beauty and separate it from other associations. To recognize sadness and separate it from other associations and so on. To be able to admit fault without losing our identities. To see things for what they are not what we believe them to be. To give up excuses in entirety and represent truth.

Being able to start at any moment.

With out this understanding, our world creates so many situations under false assumptions. We busy ourselves trying to weave through circumstances that shouldn't or wouldn't even exist had people chosen to simply stop and look.

2nd, more or less.

 

[Domino]

As much as I love people, I really hate them right at the moment.

 

[Desperado44]

Yeah....I'm with Pink....

ThatGirl....if you want to read an interesting book that is somewhat on this subject.....pick up The Art of Possibilities by Benjamin Zander

 

[sunset5678]

`

I totally agree, people just don't know how to leave well enough alone either,
and think that everyone has to conform to their views of the world, and make
choices based on false emotion because they're what everyone wants to hear
instead of because they mean it or are learning something from it...ignorance
is bliss, I guess. I know people who are so non-intellectual I don't think have
read more than like one book since high school and easily amused in general I consider to be of better intelligence than those people because at least they don't go around forcing their ideas on everybody else and let people do their own thing but they're not door mats either and stick up for themselves.

 

[Fluffywolf]

This is in no way an personal assault on you or your post, Sunset. I fully respect your opinion! But you might want to try to make shorter sentences. It really felt like a drag reading that.



Anyhow, I'm a typical rationalist. It's what I do, it's what I live for. I wouldn't be able to just stop and look around, unless I believe it has merit to stop and look around. Don't get me wrong, I totally respect the bigger picture and I don't believe my obsessive rationality is in any way narrow minded. (Made a thread about this a while ago. )

But I do believe that ignoring it (That is what it would feel like to me) isn't the best option.

 

[Halla74]

I totally agree, people just don't know how to leave well enough alone either,
and think that everyone has to conform to their views of the world, and make
choices based on false emotion because they're what everyone wants to hear
instead of because they mean it or are learning something from it...ignorance
is bliss, I guess. I know people who are so non-intellectual I don't think have
read more than like one book since high school and easily amused in general I consider to be of better intelligence than those people because at least they don't go around forcing their ideas on everybody else and let people do their own thing but they're not door mats either and stick up for themselves.

Anyone that trys to force their ideas on me is going to get an earful.

I don't know what to think of the OP, because I am so blatant, open, kind, tolerant and honest that I don't see myself skewed as such to any significant degree.

Am I a sensotard? Yes, totally retarded with regard to my feelings at times, I can tell you how I feel about something with great ease and magnificent verbal clarity, but if I have to make a decision based on my feelings I'm fucked. Maybe that's part of being ESTP, I don't know or care, it's how I am and I am trying to deal with it.

To tell you the truth the OP was really hard to read, it wore me out, I need a drink.

Oh, and I'm with Pink too, fuck people this week, everyone can kiss my ass.

 

[Lexinator]

"To never hold others accountable to our own understanding of their situations through patterns and association. To gain enough understanding and self strength to be able to trust without fear of deception. To be able to see each individual as a separate being and to show respect for their place. To find what is beauty and separate it from other associations."

It is so challenging to de-couple our entire paradigm and life framework, but it is possible. It requires something beyond effort. It requires spiritual growth that transcends effort. True freedom is to seek to understand while seeking harder to see the uniqueness of the other person. It is this uniqueness that is each of our most beautiful quality - a uniqueness of the soul, for which a truly mature spirit is capable of sensing.

Thanks your your insights and shared thoughts

 

[Risen]

This is a short rant on humanity. Inspired by several talks I have had with friends over the past couple days.

We as people are stuck in our knowledge. We base our knowledge off of understandings through associations. We assume that this gives us an edge in life. The more connections we can make the greater our knowledge and understanding becomes. With understanding we are able to measure things like predictability and derive a sense of comfort that comes from eliminating the unknown.

What we don't understand is that this knowledge has little to do with actual understanding. Assumptions based on our understandings of the world can prove to be the most destructive and hurtful of all actions. It is based on fear that we hold people accountable to things we don't really stop to understand, and actions based on fear are almost never constructive, outside of animalistic survival. In casual circumstances, and these I define by not being life or death, when we act out our assumptions, it is because we fear that someone may be trying to deceive, or will cause harm, because we don't understand or can assume that similar patterns are not tied to individuals but recognized as truths of circumstance. These actions can also take place in assuming on a positive level, but as these actions only lead to self disappointment, lesser consequence, or at times productivity, I will just focus on the down side.

For a while I have wondered why more people do not look beyond circumstance and narrow understanding in order to view actual truth. Many intellectual people seem to be the most susceptible of all this pitfall. They base their understandings on logic, a half truth in existence, and patterns of repetition. Often logic leads to only understanding the past and holding the future accountable to its laws, boxing things into a predetermined path. Concrete is based on such logic (flawed in an evolving world).

I think it is unfortunate that our world holds such narrow views. I think it is unfortunate that we cannot understand people and life on a deeper level.

Things that I would hope the world will someday grasp. To never hold others accountable to our own understanding of their situations through patterns and association. To gain enough understanding and self strength to be able to trust without fear of deception. To be able to see each individual as a separate being and to show respect for their place. To find what is beauty and separate it from other associations. To recognize sadness and separate it from other associations and so on. To be able to admit fault without losing our identities. To see things for what they are not what we believe them to be. To give up excuses in entirety and represent truth.

Being able to start at any moment.

With out this understanding, our world creates so many situations under false assumptions. We busy ourselves trying to weave through circumstances that shouldn't or wouldn't even exist had people chosen to simply stop and look.

I have never seen you speak in such a deep and coherent manner, and I have a newfound respect and reverence for you .

With that said, I think you are exactly right. It is why neither T nor F, neither logic nor emotion are superior in the game of life and the world of people. Logic does everything you said, making judgements based on past patterns and holding the future in a box that is supposed to conform to that pattern. Unfortunately, it:

1. Often keeps someone from seeing or accepting every aspect to the subject in question, actually LIMITING their understanding of it.

2. Logic, in its attempt for objective truth, cannot account for every variable that exists in the complicated world of people. Logic attempts to dictate that it has a grasp of all variables and possibilities, but it cannot, particularly when it comes to human interaction. That is where F comes in to fill the gaps that logic cannot cover.

3. Intellectuals often come to bask in these flaws without realizing the limitations of their own understanding. They can't see what is unknown to them, and lose sense of what they really do know.

However, humans will always be limited to subjective forms of understanding, based on their own experiences and perceptions. That will never change (see "Code Geass" thread). Human nature will never change.

People fail to understand sometimes that knowledge does not equate to wisdom. Wisdom is akin to understanding. Those who know nothing can understand nothing, yet at the same time, it takes something more to develop understanding from knowledge.

 

[The_Liquid_Laser]

In response to the OP:

I think the thoughts you are expressing are pretty typical of an ENTP viewpoint on life. However I think how an ENTP reacts to having this knowledge can differ from person to person.

Personally I think it is an ENTP's role in society to realize the false assumptions that people have made and take advantage of the opportunity. I think every ENTP has plenty of times where they've thought "most people think X is true, but really Y is true". This insight allows the ENTP to make improvements in methodologies or technologies. This insight also allows ENTP's to take advantage of people's false beliefs if they choose. Or the insight might just drive the ENTP nuts, because they try to point out these inaccuracies to people and most just don't get it.

I tend to think the ENTP leads the healthiest life when they use their insight to make improvements in the world around them (even if most others think they're nuts or just plain wrong). But of course it's up to each individual ENTP to decide what they want to do with the insight they have.