User Tag List

First 678910 Last

Results 71 to 80 of 173

  1. #71
    Sniffles
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    You can believe what you want, but honestly, yes, the culture will dump you behind if you don't find a way to deal with it. It's happening now, the Boomer Christian leaders are bitching over the "downfall of America" and post-modern thought. Well, get used to it. If you're going to cling to a rock and not move, then you WILL get left behind. And not in the good sense. Christians used to think they are politically relevant. Well, that's been changing, and the conservative Christians are becoming more and more irrelevant, more of a pocket faith and minority. Eventually that's what it will end up as -- a curiosity.
    "A dead thing goes with the stream; only a living thing can go against it."
    -GK Chesterton

    It's certainly something worth repeating.

    Boomers may bitch about post-modern thought, but that's largely because they're not too aware of recent developments within Christian thought which take into account post-modern themes. This is especially true in regards to the "Radical Orthodoxy" movement.

    And Christians may indeed become a minority in this country, but that's not necessarily a bad thing as Philip Jenkins notes on the current situation in Europe:
    "In fact, the rapid decline in the continent’s church attendance over the past 40 years may have done Europe a favor. It has freed churches of trying to operate as national entities that attempt to serve all members of society. Today, no church stands a realistic chance of incorporating everyone. Smaller, more focused bodies, however, can be more passionate, enthusiastic, and rigorously committed to personal holiness. To use a scientific analogy, when a star collapses, it becomes a white dwarf—smaller in size than it once was, but burning much more intensely. Across Europe, white-dwarf faith communities are growing within the remnants of the old mass church."

    Politics Forum .org - View topic - Europe’s Christian Comeback
    And this certainly is in line with Pope Benedict's call for Christians to become the "creative minority" that will spearhead the revival of Western culture. The notion of a "creative minority" is borrowed from the historian Arnold J. Toynbee, who noted the importance of such small but determined forces upon the course of history and civilizations.

    The most famous example were the "white dwarf" communities that kept civilization alive during the Dark Ages and later provided the foundation for the rise of Western civilization in the subsequent centuries.

  2. #72
    Sniffles
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezion View Post
    Knowledge of the Bible is useful when analyzing literature, but as more and more of the world becomes secular and diverse it will become less important.
    There's already considerable amount of debate among scholars and sociologists about how society is actually moving towards a Post-secular direction now.

    In fact I posted a thread discussing this:
    The Post-Secular as the Post-1968 Generation

    As I noted, it's rather interesting to have two of the leading Marxist thinkers in the world today actually defending not only religion, but even traditional religion(in the case of Zizek).

    As Jürgen Habermas(another Marxist) remarked:

    "Christianity, and nothing else, is the ultimate foundation of liberty, conscience, human rights, and democracy, the benchmarks of Western civilization. To this day, we have no other options [than Christianity]. We continue to nourish ourselves from this source. Everything else is postmodern chatter."


    So it seems more and more each day scholars are actually embracing, not rejecting, the important role of religion in society.

  3. #73
    Senior Member Journey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    6
    Socionics
    INFj
    Posts
    261

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Dude, you need to take a step back.
    I understand your mindset.
    I agreed with it when I was living in that lifestyle.
    I understand it's quite the conundrum.

    The only problem is that it's not actually a "given" like you are portraying it, it's a choice.

    You've chosen to align yourself with something that demands that level of subservience from you. You haven't been forced to follow it because it's been proven true, it's a choice on your part to ACCEPT it as true. Thus, you're stuck in that hard place where now you can't shift along with the culture.

    I realized eventually that (1) there was no proof that particular position was true, it was all a choice on my part and (2) my experiential knowledge had accumulated to a large enough degree that I concluded my original interpretation of spiritual reality was wrong.

    You can believe what you want, but honestly, yes, the culture will dump you behind if you don't find a way to deal with it. It's happening now, the Boomer Christian leaders are bitching over the "downfall of America" and post-modern thought. Well, get used to it. If you're going to cling to a rock and not move, then you WILL get left behind. And not in the good sense. Christians used to think they are politically relevant. Well, that's been changing, and the conservative Christians are becoming more and more irrelevant, more of a pocket faith and minority. Eventually that's what it will end up as -- a curiosity.

    The Bible is still being sold and is "relevant" because it's got a lot of deep insightful stuff in it. It's also the sort of text that can accommodate a lot of different experiences and philosophies. But each culture reads it and makes it its own. There is no "standard" interpretation. So it looks like the Bible is being relevant for centuries... but it's not what is being suggested in this thread, that a particular INTERPRETATION of the Bible is relevant throughout the centuries, no, not at all. each culture has its own interpretation... and each generation... and its that interpretation that is relevant and why the Bible sticks around.

    If you stick to your particular interpretation without focusing on the broader applications, you'll get sloughed off. No way to avoid it. Times change. The concepts don't, the specifics do. a lot of evangelical thought is based on specifics that lose relevancy over time.
    Culture may change, but God does not.
    "My Journey is my Destination."

    "Today Counts Forever." R.C. Sproul

  4. #74
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    18,529

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    So it seems more and more each day scholars are actually embracing, not rejecting, the important role of religion in society.
    It's true. There has never been a civilization not based on a religion.

    Atheists tend to elide this issue. All except for one, Julian Jaynes, who wrote, "The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind".

    And even he may be wrong.

  5. #75
    Oberon
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kelric View Post
    For the record... I'm one of the people you describe... I've never read the Bible - and have never had any desire to read it, either. I'm not religious, and my interests simply lie in other directions - so take that how you will . At the same time, I'm sure that there are books that I've read and liked that took inspiration (or simply paraphrased) parts of the Bible - but in that case, it's the components of the story that I liked - not the fact that they were Biblically inspired (and I'd suspect that most of the elements of stories in the Bible were taken from earlier traditions anyway).
    You have consigned yourself to qualitative ignorance of nine-tenths of the literature of Western civilization up to the 19th century.

    Yes, it's your right to do so... but make no mistake, it's what you're doing. You can't understand Tolstoy or Swift or even Tolkien properly without a general familiarity with the Bible, because that's the framework out of which the authors were working.

  6. #76
    Sniffles
    Guest

    Default

    Yeah it's funny how so many today forget that Tolkein was a devout Catholic.

  7. #77
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    Culture may change, but God does not.
    lol. you guys.
    Way to address my points.
    My point is you have no idea who God is, objectively, whatsoever.
    (But you talk as if you do --that's the discrepancy.)

    It's all based on assumption, based on what you accept as authoritative.
    There is nothing that can be known with certainty.

    It doesn't matter, you know; you can believe what you want.
    It's a free country.

    PS. Hi Obey!!!
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #78
    Oberon
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Hi Obey!!!
    Hey.

    What do you think? Can you really grok, say, Ursula LeGuin's work without at least a passing familiarity with the Bible?

  9. #79
    Oberon
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Yeah it's funny how so many today forget that Tolkein was a devout Catholic.
    Yes.

    And even if the author is working counter to the tradition, they're still working in reference to it... like Stephen King or Harlan Ellison, for example.

  10. #80
    Feline Member kelric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    MBTI
    INtP
    Posts
    2,169

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    You have consigned yourself to qualitative ignorance of nine-tenths of the literature of Western civilization up to the 19th century.

    Yes, it's your right to do so... but make no mistake, it's what you're doing. You can't understand Tolstoy or Swift or even Tolkien properly without a general familiarity with the Bible, because that's the framework out of which the authors were working.
    I won't bother to contest the point. It's completely true that I don't much care for classic literature of any sort - never have - I'd much rather read something lighter, or non-fiction. I find many of the Tolkien derivatives much more satisfying reading than Tolkien himself, for instance.

    Frankly, for me, reading the Bible just isn't worth it (I've tried - briefly, maybe twice - and I'll admit my nonreligious leanings are strong enough to have that aspect of it alone be a major turnoff). Even if a large percentage of classical Western literature assumes a knowledge of it - most of that's stuff that I don't enjoy anyway, and even if I can read something and say "well, this is very well written - but *yawn*" (my usual response to "classic" literature), it's not something that really makes me want to spend time on it - there are other things I'd enjoy more. Most (if not all) "new" stories are old stories in new wrappers - and have been even before and including the Bible - things that appealed to people thousands of years ago still appeal now - when presented in a context that you can appreciate. For me, the Bible isn't that context, and I've never felt much connection to "culture" anyway.

    "Educated" is a pretty meaningless generic term nowadays, I think. There's SO much out there to know that none of us can really handle any reasonably large chunk of it. We can be educated in a topic, or even a lot of topics - but why should I choose to be educated in the Bible, for instance, instead of nuclear physics, or genetics, or geography, or geology, or economics?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

Similar Threads

  1. Jimmy Carter: The U.S. Is No Longer a Democracy
    By Olm the Water King in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-25-2015, 05:49 AM
  2. NOM is no longer 'nomnom'able?
    By Totenkindly in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-20-2014, 12:46 PM
  3. [INTP] INTPs: If someone is no longer interesting, do you ignore them?
    By Anew Leaf in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: 02-15-2012, 07:07 PM
  4. Is MBTI type (or part of it) genetic?
    By Macabre in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 06-16-2011, 10:35 AM
  5. [MBTItm] How Does One Deal With Heartbreak and Is Psychological Pain Necessarily Part Of It?
    By Winds of Thor in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 151
    Last Post: 05-28-2009, 09:43 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO