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  1. #41
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    This is the reason I never listen to one.
    I prefer watching it.

    It is, for the most part, unbiased.
    we fukin won boys

  2. #42
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    After all, ones view of eternity tends to influence ones views of everything else.
    If i take it you still maintain that religion is the ultimate source of art inspiration....

    you're using a false equivalence: "Being inspired by a gut level emotion that often leads one to ponder on his religion", is not equivalent to "religion is the basis of inspiration". Death, love, life etc all are often sources of great human pondering. So it is true that many humans have ended up turning to religion to answer their questions and build a reference point for thinking.

    so for example. A man has a loved one die. He then paints a very religious painting. I would propose this chain of inspiration:

    thoughts of death --> his beliefs regarding eschatology --> his religion. To then claim that religion is the source of inspiration for the art this man creates is somewhat misleading. Did the relgion have a large part in the art? yes. To claim that that same inspiration origin, "death", could never be expressed through a different, dare i say, secular paradigm is kind of presumptive.

    Here is what some would call a beautiful song (in its musical form at least). the lryrics are very much dealing with death. This would be an example of the strong inspiration of "emotion" regarding death (like our earlier example) being expressed through secular means.

    Fade To Black

    Life it seems, will fade away
    Drifting further every day
    Getting lost within myself
    Nothing matters no one else
    I have lost the will to live
    Simply nothing more to give
    There is nothing more for me
    Need the end to set me free

    Things are not what they used to be
    Missing one inside of me
    Deathly lost, this can't be real
    Cannot stand this hell I feel
    Emptiness is filing me
    To the point of agony
    Growing darkness taking dawn
    I was me, but now He's gone

    No one but me can save myself, but it's too late
    Now I can't think, think why I should even try
    Yesterday seems as though it never existed
    Death Greets me warm, now I will just say good-bye

  3. #43
    I'm a star. Kangirl's Avatar
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    Sorry bible guys; no one cares anymore.
    But do you think this is good or bad, or neither? Do you consider a person 'educated' if they have no knowledge of the bible?
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  4. #44
    Member Ezion's Avatar
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    Knowledge of the Bible is useful when analyzing literature, but as more and more of the world becomes secular and diverse it will become less important.

    What will remain useful is knowledge of common themes (many of which the Bible addresses) that reoccur in literature (life, death, love, etc).

    It seems like Peguy has a personal stake in defending religion as a cornerstone of culture and art inspiration. If you use a broad enough definition of religion, this is inevitably true.
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  5. #45
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    You know this is going to sound some what ignorant (or sheltered). There are western people who can't pick up bible references in western literature? "Educated" people? (Don't get me on the Shakespeare tangent either), greek classics are maybe understandable (not really though)...How could you analyse anything really, of literary note without a basic understanding of the above?
    I mean even The Matrix movies give a not so subtle note to Christianity. It would be like walking round with blinkers on.
    I have a fair working knowledge of all the above, and I've never studied literature. How could you not just absorb it?
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
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  6. #46
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Well, as you probably know I think that Bible has a lot of incorrect information.

    Personally I am not suprised that things are going in this direction. Bible survived for so long because it gave good philosophical ground for our ancestors.

    But I the world where grandmother can give birth to their grandchildren.
    In the world when mankind can cause global armageddon during one afternoon if they feel like it. Or in the world where you can talk to a person on the other side without any problems etc. the wisdom that comes from the bible bacomes useless by a large degree.
    It sounds harsh but this is the truth. I am sure that many will disagree with me.

  7. #47
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    Yes, that doesn't really change the fact that a fair amount of literature is inspired and uses biblical symbolism. Even modern day stuff and the odd t.v. program (without, with out the Christian agenda.)
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
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  8. #48
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireyPheonix View Post
    Yes, that doesn't really change the fact that a fair amount of literature is inspired and uses biblical symbolism. Even modern day stuff and the odd t.v. program (without, with out the Christian agenda.)
    But what is so important about that literature?
    The literature is becoming obsolete in many cases as well.
    Had an honour to read some 150 year old texts and I got bored. Since reading that was a complete waste of time. But it had to be done.
    (for school)


    In the case that it is inspiring TV program we should get rid of it as quickly as possible.

  9. #49
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Unless you're a theology major, knowledge of Christianity isn't required for someone to be educated. Under what could be considered a "well-rounded" or "general" education, I don't think one needs to know any specific bibles verses, but a general knowledge of history, which would include some knowledge of the major religions, would help.

    Learning the Bible from a fundamentalist perspective can actually damage one's potential to become educated. If the world is 6000 years old, why learn about evolution? It contradicts them. Instead of taking an inquisitive and scientific approach when understanding the world, one can simply tell themselves "God did it".

  10. #50
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    Not so, one must simply have an inspiration, I do not see how eternity is required. Perhaps a simple illustration will help. Much of what is viewed by many as great "art" is and was inspired by the beauty or hope of a desired lover, for example and not by religious themes.
    Interestingly, a lot of Christian music in the last twenty years is the impression of human love/romance laid overtop of spiritual yearnings. (i.e., God has been redefined in romantic terms, whereas for many decades it was more patriarchal/authoritarian).

    It seems that each generation reinvents God by overlaying the issues of importance to them. On a broader scale, cultures do this as well.

    The bottom line to me has always been, "Is it true?" The opening post complaining about "what has been lost" means little to me, if what was lost was never true to begin with. A mistake perpetuated for centuries, even if it happened to catalyze some good things, is still a mistake and catalyzed a bunch of wrong things as well.

    I think education is good, and I think since the United States still has a large faction that claims loyalty to the Christian God even to the point of endlessly stirring up conflict and fighting cultural wars over it, it should really have some knowledge of the point of view it's defending. But again, the "faith" in practice seems to be more about people justifying what they already believe by laying claim to convenient religious doctrines, rather than the other way around, at best. The most conflict intellectually that I've had with people has been with those of dogmatic religious views, and that's because those faiths are designed to provide all the answers -- the goal is not to learn how to think and weigh options in an ambiguous world, it's about conforming to an already expressed ideal and to otherwise consider yourself "fallen away" if you break the rules.

    I don't see religion as practiced as that positive, although people who already were of good moral character and intelligence throughout the centuries found something of value in it to which to attach their flame.

    Finally, if the Bible is no longer part of the conversation, that's less the fault of the culture at large and more the fault of the people who claim to adhere to its standards. It has rather disenfranchised itself over time because the followers were unyielding, unreasonable, and unable to apply general principles to adjust to the valid needs of a shifting culture.
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