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  1. #31
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    With religion, you have something aspiring man's talents towards to the highest heavens. Without that, what do you have? Nothing really, but petty self-absorption. Great art is like a water spring: eternal but always fresh.

    The grandeur of Classical, Medieval, Renaisance, Baroque, Neo-Classical, Romantic, etc. art will stand for generations to come because it sought to give expression to such eternal themes. But in order to do that, one must first believe in eternity to begin with.
    Not so, one must simply have an inspiration, I do not see how eternity is required. Perhaps a simple illustration will help. Much of what is viewed by many as great "art" is and was inspired by the beauty or hope of a desired lover, for example and not by religious themes.

  2. #32
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    I'd agree with you that the Bible has been extraordinarily influential in literature and art, and so it's definitely useful to study it from a literary standpoint.
    This is something I've been wondering on for a good while.

    I'm actually going to make a thread about it instead of responding here though. It deserves more focused attention.

    However, I don't really understand your statement that "a strong religious base is at the heart of cultural development."
    It's true. On the other hand, if it weren't for the Beatles, we wouldn't have Metalocalypse, and I doubt anyone in Dethklok likes or has heard of the Beatles.

    And for an actively economically focused culture (rather than religious or literary) it's harder to believe that something which is almost two thousand years more fresh, and (I'd estimate) 300 times more profitable was forgotten so quickly. Granted, there are still people who go crazy for the Beatles, but at the same rate, there are still people who go crazy for the bible as well.
    ...or merely that it has been a crucial part of Western cultural development?
    The fact of the matter is, that's irrelevant.

    I didn't bother to see what Peguy's point actually was, but if the former, then...
    *sigh*

    ... and if the latter then it's irrelevant.

    Maybe inconvenient, but ultimately, irrelevant.

    Sorry bible guys; no one cares anymore.
    At least you have free speech though right?
    we fukin won boys

  3. #33
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    I don't think a person can really consider themself a literature studend without being fairly well acquianted with both Shakespeare and the Bible.

    It's true. On the other hand, if it weren't for the Beatles, we wouldn't have Metalocalypse, and I doubt anyone in Dethklok likes or has heard of the Beatles.
    I don't think a person can consider themself a student of music without being fairly well acquaited with the Beatles.
    My wife and I made a game to teach kids about nutrition. Please try our game and vote for us to win. (Voting period: July 14 - August 14)
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  4. #34
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocap View Post
    I didn't bother to see what Peguy's point actually was
    Likewise in regards to your supposed point.

  5. #35
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    I don't think a person can really consider themself a literature studend without being fairly well acquianted with both Shakespeare and the Bible.
    I don't think a person can consider themself a student of music without being fairly well acquaited with the Beatles.
    Well not that it matters -- record companies will still record them, and people will still listen, despite the lack of bureaucratic glue to hold their reputation together, the same way people will still write, and the public will still read -- but no one said anything about being a student of music. Only that regardless of their extended influences, the instruments will still make publicly appealing sound.
    we fukin won boys

  6. #36
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Likewise in regards to your supposed point.
    You would ignore.
    Sheesh... at least I gave you the credit of having one...
    we fukin won boys

  7. #37
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocap View Post

    It's true. On the other hand, if it weren't for the Beatles, we wouldn't have Metalocalypse, and I doubt anyone in Dethklok likes or has heard of the Beatles.
    im quite confident Metal still would of come about even without the beatles. the beatles may be the fathers of pop, but not even close to being the fathers of guitar driven song.

    Cream, together with The Jimi Hendrix Experience, made a significant impact upon the popular music of the time, and along with Hendrix popularised the use of the wah-wah pedal. They provided a heavy yet technically proficient musical theme that foreshadowed the emergence of English bands such as Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple, and The Jeff Beck Group in the late 1960s.
    I would bet that Clapton and Hendrix would probably sight their biggest influences as being african american style blues... from these points --> bands like Lep Zepplin and Black Sabbath laid down the foundations for later metal etc etc etc....

  8. #38
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    im quite confident Metal still would of come about even without the beatles. the beatles may be the fathers of pop, but not even close to being the fathers of guitar driven song.
    The point still remains: at some point, there had to be an influence.

    I can go all the way back to classical music if you like.

    The point is, there's deviation enough that it's feasible for many people not to know that one sect exists.
    we fukin won boys

  9. #39
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocap View Post
    The point still remains: at some point, there had to be an influence.

    I can go all the way back to classical music if you like.

    The point is, there's deviation enough that it's feasible for many people not to know that one sect exists.
    i know. and i would happily join you in retracing music back to classical!
    and you know what would happen?

    Peguy would probably jump in and go on about how "because the Papal bankrolled said classical music writer, religion would then get credit for being the source for all of modern music...meaning there can be no future meaningful music without a religious society".

    (could it be that the church had so much fucking control, that religion was the only POSSIBLE 'accepted' art outlet? this would hardly PRECLUDE there being OTHER inspirational sources of human motivation, then Or now).

    gosh, i ...feel like im having a premonition...im betting Peguy is going to accuse me of a strawman here. Maybe it is. its really only my attempt at putting his little "religion is the root of everything" game into practice.

  10. #40
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    im betting Peguy is going to accuse me of a strawman here. Maybe it is. its really only my attempt at putting his little "religion is the root of everything" game into practice.
    Well considering the fact that I mentioned that religion is the primary factor, while of course there are other secondary factors at play. After all, ones view of eternity tends to influence ones views of everything else.

    So nice try on that score.

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