User Tag List

First 1234513 Last

Results 21 to 30 of 173

  1. #21
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    7,917

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    The very notion of a "Dark Age" has actually been discarded by scholars for at least 50-100 years now. The "Dark Ages" were a very rich era in terms of culture.

    One recent work dealing with this topic is Julia M. H. Smith's Europe after Rome: A New Cultural History 500-1000. Of course this is only one among many many many MANY other sources one can consult.

    There's also Peter Brown, who has written much about Late Antiquity and notes that the early Medieval period was far more vibrant an age than previously thought.

    Just for fun, here's his remarks about one lasting legacy of the "Dark Ages" which still effects us to this day:

    --The Rise of Western Christendom: Triumph and Diversity AD 200-1000 pg. 23

    Yes you heard it, the book as we know it today was developed by Christian scribes during the "Dark Ages". On a related note I should mention that the practice of putting spaces between words was also developed during this period by Irish monks.

    Much has also been written about the great Renaisance of the 12-13th centuries.



    It'd be more accurate to describe the Renaissance as "anti-Clerical" which is not the same thing as secular. Need we forget that the Papacy was the greatest parton for artworks during this time, which was a bone of contention with the more austere Protestant reformers.
    How would you explain the surge of art and culture that came in the Renaissance, when humanism became popular? Even many of the theologians of the time shifted towards humanist thinking.

    Shouldn't the Dark Ages have been the beacon of rich art and culture, instead of the Renaissance?

  2. #22
    Sniffles
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    How would you explain the surge of art and culture that came in the Renaissance, when humanism became popular? Even many of the theologians of the time shifted towards humanist thinking.
    Humanism at this time was based upon Christian precepts. This was especially true in regards to Desiderius Erasmus, although he wasn't alone:
    Christian humanism saw an explosion in the Renaissance, emanating from an increased faith in the capabilities of Man, married with a still-firm devotion to Christianity. Plain Humanism might value earthly existence as something worthy in itself, whereas Christian humanism would value such existence, so long as it were combined with the Christian faith. One of the first texts regarding Christian humanism was Giovanni Pico della Mirandola's Oration on the Dignity of Man, in which he stressed that Men had the free will to travel up and down a moral scale, with God and angels being at the top, and Satan being at the bottom. The country of Pico's nativity, Italy, leaned heavily toward Civic humanism, while the firmer Christian principles took effect in places other than Italy, during what is now called the Northern Renaissance. Italian universities and academia stressed Classical mythology and writings as a source of knowledge, whereas universities in the Holy Roman Empire and France based their teachings on the Church Fathers.

    Christian humanism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    The Nothern Renaisance had a very strong religious element to it. So the "secularism" can only really be limited to the Italian Renaisance.

  3. #23
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    7,917

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Humanism at this time was based upon Christian precepts. This was especially true in regards to Desiderius Erasmus, although he wasn't alone:
    Christian Humanism "emanating from an increased faith in the capabilities of Man". Not from God or religion.

    By your logic, art should have suffered at this time, surely Man is not the source of great art. And it should have flourished in the Dark Ages. Seems backward.

  4. #24
    Sniffles
    Guest

    Default

    As usual, you're just grasping for straws at this point. Religious aspirations were still important at the time of the Renaisance. I'll even ask my one colleague for the studies he's read actually arguing that there was more fervent religiousity during this time than the late Medieval period.

    Most of the "secular" thinking was largely anti-Clerical in nature, which meant being critical of religious authorities ironically for betraying the teachings of Christ.

    One study that's on my reading list that deals with this issue even is Michael Allen Gillespie's newly released The Theological Origins of Modernity.

  5. #25
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    7,917

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    As usual, you're just grasping for straws at this point. Religious aspirations were still important at the time of the Renaisance. I'll even ask my one colleague for the studies he's read actually arguing that there was more fervent religiousity during this time than the late Medieval period.

    Most of the "secular" thinking was largely anti-Clerical in nature, which meant being critical of religious authorities ironically for betraying the teachings of Christ.
    Of course religion was still important in the Renaissance. It still plays a role in modern society. We are talking about trends. I can't make this any simpler.

  6. #26
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    enfp
    Enneagram
    8
    Posts
    13,881

    Default

    You know, I notice this a LOT in school. It seems religious archetypes of ANY sort are never picked up when critically analyzing pieces, and English class itself revolves around the picking apart and analyzing authors and their pieces and the messages behind them. The end result is: Even if present authors are excluding religious pieces.. Critical Analysis on a scholarly level done on any well-written material takes lots of time.. Many author's best works aren't even discovered until well after their deaths. Religion will be a prevailing theme in many parts of literature, and it's definitely not going away.

    Not caring for religion is NOT the same as not educating yourself on religion. You CAN be an atheist educated in the true meanings of Christianity. But it seems more popular and trendy now-a-days to brag about the inability to catch Biblical references, or to remain ignorant of religion. People who haven't read a bit of scripture seem to be appauled and resist everything imploring them to read it.

    I have no problem reading any text and trying to understand and grasp the concept.. even if those concepts don't line up to my religious views. I think education in every form is essential, and that includes opening your mind up to the foundation of the things you analyze. People aren't capable of putting pieces together, my English class is absolutely horrid.. It's one dumb shallow comment after another from the flapping jowls of un-caring students trying to get a grade and flee as quickly as possible.
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
    Halla74: Think your way through the world. Feel your way through life.

    Cimarron: maybe Prpl will be your girl-bud
    prplchknz: i don't like it

    In Search Of... ... Kiwi Sketch Art ... Dream Journal ... Kyuuei's Cook book ... Kyu's Tiny House Blog ... Minimalist Challenge ... Kyu's Savings Challenge

  7. #27
    Sniffles
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Not caring for religion is NOT the same as not educating yourself on religion. You CAN be an atheist educated in the true meanings of Christianity. But it seems more popular and trendy now-a-days to brag about the inability to catch Biblical references, or to remain ignorant of religion. People who haven't read a bit of scripture seem to be appauled and resist everything imploring them to read it.
    Interestingly I decided to buck that trend even as an atheist. I remember people in class would be shocked whenever I made overt references to verses in Scriptures. I may not have believed in God at the time, but I still recognised the Bible as a major source of wisdom for our society.

    Apparently I'm in good company in that respects, since Christopher Hitchens is no friend of religion yet had this to say:

    "You are not educated if you donít know the Bible. You canít read Shakespeare or Milton without it, even if there was nothing else of it. And with the schools now, thatís what I hate about secular relativism. Itís afraid of insurance liability. They donít even teach it as a document. They stay out of the whole thing to avoid controversy. So the kids canít quote the King James Bible. Thatís terrible. And I quite understand Christian parents who want to protect their children from a nihilistic solution where thereís no way of knowing whatís been discussed."

  8. #28
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Posts
    6,707

    Default

    We seem to be arguing two different things here.

    Is it that religion is the foundation of art or that people should have a sturdy understanding of religion to understand religious references in literature?

    Because I can agree to one and not the other.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  9. #29
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    enfp
    Enneagram
    8
    Posts
    13,881

    Default

    ^ This is exactly what I got out of the thread. I think other comments were narrowing the topic. Focusing on the details rather than the OP's discussion topic.
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
    Halla74: Think your way through the world. Feel your way through life.

    Cimarron: maybe Prpl will be your girl-bud
    prplchknz: i don't like it

    In Search Of... ... Kiwi Sketch Art ... Dream Journal ... Kyuuei's Cook book ... Kyu's Tiny House Blog ... Minimalist Challenge ... Kyu's Savings Challenge

  10. #30
    I'm a star. Kangirl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Posts
    1,470

    Default

    You are not educated if you donít know the Bible.
    I totally, completely agree with Hitchens. It's a travesty of liberal arts 'education' that so many graduate lacking any real understanding of what underpins all the things/philosophies/art/literature etc. they were studying the whole time. I genuinely don't think a person who lacks knowledge of the bible can describe themselves as 'educated'. And don't even get me started on lit graduates who have only read pieces of one Shakespeare play, or who have completely avoided Milton etc.
    "Only an irrational dumbass, would burn Jews." - Jaguar

    "please give concise answers in plain English" - request from Provoker

Similar Threads

  1. Jimmy Carter: The U.S. Is No Longer a Democracy
    By Olm the Water King in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-25-2015, 05:49 AM
  2. NOM is no longer 'nomnom'able?
    By Totenkindly in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-20-2014, 12:46 PM
  3. [INTP] INTPs: If someone is no longer interesting, do you ignore them?
    By Anew Leaf in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: 02-15-2012, 07:07 PM
  4. Is MBTI type (or part of it) genetic?
    By Macabre in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 06-16-2011, 10:35 AM
  5. [MBTItm] How Does One Deal With Heartbreak and Is Psychological Pain Necessarily Part Of It?
    By Winds of Thor in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 151
    Last Post: 05-28-2009, 09:43 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO