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  1. #31
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    Then you're just defaulting on the definition of reality. What we defined is always correct.
    Right, so each and everyone's subjective view on reality, are all part of the absolute reality. I can dig that.

    Like my forest through the trees topic. I somehow always come back to that view on philosophy. Everything ends up being a piece of the puzzle.

    edit:
    the third person sees a duck getting a prostate exam.
    Sounds like his reality/perception just got influenced by other peoples reality/perception.




    But to go back to reality is perception. I still don't see it as anywhere near truth. Perception is a part of subjective reality. But my view on reality, is much more then just our and everyones perception. It goes beyond perception.

  2. #32
    Senior Member matmos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    Beat's question has a lot to do with our shared instinctive desire to instill 'order' in our world. To impose order is to assert comprehension. The belief that we have a reliable encapsulation of all available possibilities in any given scenario tends to assuage some of the emotional burden we might otherwise feel when dealing with an unknown, as we believe we have the necessary intellectual experience to react to potential hostilities from our subject.

    Same instinct goes for reality. Finding pattern is how we convince ourselves that we are safe.
    Evolutionary traits are like the curate's egg. It gave you the tools to get on the train from the country, but not the tools to live in the big city.

    The way events are filtered and acted upon may have been useful to a Neanderthal; transplant them into a complex environment and they become reductive and potentially dangerous. In the course of a day you may negotiate hundreds of complex transactions, but rely on that old favourite, pattern recognition, to ride to the rescue. The significance of such observations is highly debateable. What has happened and is tangible take preference to that which is intangible, remote or seemingly improbable.

    I'll end with a story. While at school, I had a classmate who used to hang about under a bridge at lunchtime, smoking with his cronies. He was a thoroughly unpleasant character - but that is not the point. He would amuse his clique by shouting random abuse at passers-by (old women, mainly), most of whom were too old or too timid to confront what seemed like a gang of aggressive teenage boys. This lasted some time - I guess from 14 years plus. Every time he got away with it was, to him, further confirmation of how he could further get away with it. He made a fatal error in his ability to calculate risk - that because something hasn't happened is evidence that it won't. Neither was he able to evaluate reward (the glee of being bad and impressing his friends) with the risk.

    He tried it with the wrong old lady and was very violently assaulted by (I assume) her sons - two tough nuts who made mincemeat of him. The attack left him severely epileptic and I don't believe he ever worked. I guess his pattern recognition skills weren't much cop.

  3. #33
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlittrell View Post
    exactly.

    its like two people looking at a cloud. one says it looks like a duck, and the other says it looks like someone getting a prostate exam. but no matter what they see it is still just a cloud slightly skewed from two different points of view..

    EDIT:

    the third person sees a duck getting a prostate exam.
    My question is, "how do you know it's actually a cloud?"

    You can't step outside of your frame to know that.
    You think it's a cloud, because you've created a definition of what a "cloud" is... but really, that's just an arbitrary viewpoint and description in itself, based on your valueset.

    You have no idea whether it's merely part of something bigger or not.

    All of those definitions are still subjective, although the quality of subjectivity is still a bit different with the cloud vs the other perspectives.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #34
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    About the story. I've seen teenagers dragged into doing stuff they don't really want to do just because they want to be part of a group. But has -nothing- at all to do with their own reasoning skills, per se. Ofcourse to some extent, but wanting to be part of something can really overshadow someone's inner rational. I've seen it happen a few times too many. And once first hand, which I regret to this day.

    I never felt the need to be part of any group. I had plenty of friends, but that came natural. When I was 19 and drunk, as were my friends, things escalated and stuff happened better left unmentioned in a drunken haze. Afterwards, I made a pact with myself never to get drunk again.

    edit: Jen, I believe his point was to show the levels of perspective.

    ? > Condensed water > Cloud > Figure > White, etc.

  5. #35
    Senior Member matmos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    About the story. I've seen teenagers dragged into doing stuff they don't really want to do just because they want to be part of a group. But has -nothing- at all to do with their own reasoning skills, per se. Ofcourse to some extent, but wanting to be part of something can really overshadow someone's inner rational. I've seen it happen a few times too many. And once first hand, which I regret to this day.
    Only an example, Furrywolf. You can extrapolate the situation to anything you chose... your job for life, the housing market. The banking system.

    All the best.

  6. #36
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Just saying.

  7. #37
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bananatrombones View Post
    Evolutionary traits are like the curate's egg.
    Impressive analysis. Well-defined.

  8. #38
    brat Mitzy's Avatar
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    read kant and schopenhauer
    She talks pretty but says mean things

  9. #39
    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
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    Would most people here disagree that there is an objective reality even though we experience it subjectively?

  10. #40
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    To disagree with objective (absolute) reality would be to disagree objecive (absolute) existance itself. So I doubt it.

    Not me anyhow.

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