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  1. #21
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Yes.

    Perception is biased. There is no objective reality that we can observe because:

    1. The act of observing changes the system
    2. The way we choose to observe alters the results (We look at the variables we expect to change in the way we expect it to do so.)
    3. Interpretation of what we "saw" is based on our past experiences

    If we can't ever comprehend the "objective reality"... then reality as we know it for all intents and purpose will be subjective. Hence perception is reality.
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  2. #22
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    Yes.

    Perception is biased. There is no objective reality that we can observe because:

    1. The act of observing changes the system
    2. The way we choose to observe alters the results (We look at the variables we expect to change in the way we expect it to do so.)
    3. Interpretation of what we "saw" is based on our past experiences

    If we can't ever comprehend the "objective reality"... then reality as we know it for all intents and purpose will be subjective. Hence perception is reality.
    Reality remains an idea that is absolute. Like I mentioned earlier.

    There is only one reality, but it can only be falsely identified as subjective.

    We all know there is one reality, because if that wasn't the case we wouldn't exist. But we can't ever understand that reality to its fullest. Saying reality is subjective or is perception, is just a cheap way to try and understand that which you can not.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Yep, I do think perception is reality in the sense that that is how the person experiences things. Schizophrenics think the things they see are real because that is how they feel to them.

    If someone was born blind he/she will sense the world and think differently. Maybe there is an alien species out there with 10 senses instead of 5 that would challenge our views of what is really happening at any given moment. What is real and what is not.

  4. #24
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beat View Post
    I wanted to see where this topic could go.

    I obviously don't believe a blanket statement of "perception is reality" can ever be applied, however, when it gets down to the nitty-gritty, what really matters? If "the people" aren't happy with the perception, does the reality even count for any thing? I'm looking at this from a broader scale, like a nation and its people.
    Blah my bad for double posting but I don't care.

    It's not a blanket statement. It's a constrain that has always existed. We tend not to think about it because we assume other people's perception would be the same as our own. Egocentricity and all. As Night said, people must believe there's order in the world... rules, patterns, laws etc. Without that, there's no purpose to life... to working... to making an effort. Because if the world is truly chaotic nothing we do will ever change the outcome. People can't abide to that idea. So they (myself included) believe in cause and effect and our ability in changing "fate".

    For the "bug" to work... infecting one person is not enough... you need to infect everybody. I believe that's what communism is based upon. Change the perception of the masses and get them to believe if everybody does their share, then the world will be a better place. *cough cough* 1984...
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  5. #25
    Senior Member mlittrell's Avatar
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    our perception defines our reality. true reality isn't anything we perceive since we all perceive something different. if we all perceive different realities, then which reality is truth?
    "Honest differences are often a healthy sign of progress. "

    "You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty."

    "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

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  6. #26
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    Reality remains an idea that is absolute. Like I mentioned earlier.

    There is only one reality, but it can only be falsely identified as subjective.

    We all know there is one reality, because if that wasn't the case we wouldn't exist. But we can't ever understand that reality to its fullest. Saying reality is subjective or is perception, is just a cheap way to try and understand that which you can not.
    For all intents and purpose... what the true reality is doesn't matter at all if we cannot comprehend it. What is truth? How do we know our understanding of it is correct? We cannot. Yet life still goes on. For us to make decisions subjective reality is all that matters.

    I'm not saying I try to understand reality by that which is subjective. I'm saying for us to operate within it, we need a basic working definition and that's provided by our subjective version of truth.

    Also we don't know there is one reality either. How do you know there's only one version, one form? All we know is that reality exists in some shape and form because our own individual consciousness exists. The rest of it, including you, could just be a figment of my imagination.
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  7. #27
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    If there are 'two realities'. Then the absolute reality is that both are part of one reality.

    So. There can only be one absolute reality.

  8. #28
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    It's not a blanket statement. It's a constrain that has always existed. We tend not to think about it because we assume other people's perception would be the same as our own. Egocentricity and all.
    Exactly. This is one reason why people fight over "religious" issues when actually neither side has any real ground to stand on -- no higher "claim" to being more true than another. They just assume that how they view the world is the way it should be, they don't listen well or regard other views as having equal validity.

    Even with religious thought, let's say someone has a "spiritual experience." if it's intense enough, they use it to validate their own perceptions -- not really willing to acknowledge that other people also do have religious experiences of the same intensity in other practices. So the experience or perception is NOT necessarily reality (at least to the exclusion of some other realities) but to them it's reality and the deepest one.

    For the "bug" to work... infecting one person is not enough... you need to infect everybody. I believe that's what communism is based upon. Change the perception of the masses and get them to believe if everybody does their share, then the world will be a better place. *cough cough* 1984...
    Perception is reality .. a la Matrix.

    I was also going to say that on a micro level, we play with perception = reality too. Everyone to some degree (some far more than others) broadcasts who they want to be perceived as to others. If the broadcast is strong enough or cohesive enough, compared to the resistance by the receivers to that broadcast, then it becomes the reality even if it's not true or firm -- that's how people perceive you.

    And sometimes if you broadcast something enough, you begin to believe it yourself... and become that. Perception has become reality. And the same vice versa: If you accept the perceptions of others imposed on you as reality, then you actually might become what they are telling you that you are.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #29
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    If there are 'two realities'. Then the absolute reality is that both are part of one reality.

    So. There can only be one absolute reality.
    Then you're just defaulting on the definition of reality. What we defined is always correct.
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  10. #30
    Senior Member mlittrell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    If there are 'two realities'. Then the absolute reality is that both are part of one reality.

    So. There can only be one absolute reality.
    exactly.

    its like two people looking at a cloud. one says it looks like a duck, and the other says it looks like someone getting a prostate exam. but no matter what they see it is still just a cloud slightly skewed from two different points of view..

    EDIT:

    the third person sees a duck getting a prostate exam.
    "Honest differences are often a healthy sign of progress. "

    "You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty."

    "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

    Mahatma Gandhi

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