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  1. #21
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feops View Post
    Semantics. You original assertion was that time couldn't be measured. Sure time isn't a material thing. Why does it need to be? The passage of time makes a material impact on what we do and we have tools that mechanically track this passage with precision.
    I don't personally see it that way. The passage of time doesn't have a material impact on what we do. But rather, what we do has an impact on how we see time. Time is our explanation for all the movement in the world. But it doesn't really exist. We measure movement in the world and to explain we use amounts of time. But time itself, since it isn't an existing property, can not be influenced in any way. Therefor, time doesn't stop. Or go faster. Or even always go the same speed. Our perception of movement however may alternate.

    So my point was that the concept of time itself is often the wrong place to look for answers, instead look in the material aspects of 'time', why is time what you believe it is.

    But I'm not sure we're on topic on this. :P

  2. #22
    Alexander the Terrible yenom's Avatar
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    Time exist even if all clocks in the universe stoped. a clock does not define time. It only defines the revolution of earth around the sun (aka Human time). All the planets revolve in different frequencies around the suns.

    I am trying to figure out is time really 0 after death, or is it not 0.
    The fear of poverty turns people into slaves of money.

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  3. #23
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Okay, I'll just go speculating here a bit, hypothetically..

    Suppose these facts are indeed all true:
    - Time becomes 0 after death. Awareness becomes eternal.
    - Awareness is a product from brain activity.
    - Brain activity requires movement, and movement takes time.

    If all these are all true and our conscious or soul would actually live in a 0 state of time, it would mean we would eternally live in 'nothing'. Not a black void, or representation of nothing. No thoughts, no vision, no senses of any kind. We would have no ability to do or sense anything. If time is nulified, our existance is nulified. So, by means of speculation. One could assume we enter an eternal state. But the eternal state we enter has no meaning. And thus our very existance in that plane, will have no meaning. Our very state of eternal awareness would be an eternal state of nothingness. No memories or thoughts, no sense of self. But actual awareness of eternally being stuck, left with nothing but nothing.


    To me, that doesn't really make much sense. I admit I try to rationalize it. And there's many thing about the universe we do not know. In fact. within our brain could very well be a form of energy no one has yet been able to measure. And that upon death. That form of energy becomes a box to our mind. Like a remnant or copy of our sense of awareness, which lasts eternally since the form of energy is unaffected by time, or matter and thus does not decay. Again speculation. But truth is we don't know. My point is. Wether you believe or not. I think there are viable theories to this regardless of what you believe.



    But my personal opinion about this is very 'scientific' based. Like I said, I believe that time isn't really 'there'. An uninfluencable factor that is as real as the concept 'nothing' itself. In that, I believe that when we die, our consciousness dissappearss with it. The transition from alive to death however most assuredly takes some time. As the brain shuts itself down, we might enter certain states of awareness, that we would never enter with a fully functional living brain. All activity slows down in the brain. Until it stops completely and then there is nothing left. Slowly the brain is shutting down and with it our mind and thoughts.

  4. #24
    Senior Member ColonelGadaafi's Avatar
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    Time itself is measured by human perception. We define it as a vast expanse of consequental events that impact us in all ways. When we die and our organs shut down, we stop measuring time, and thus we return to state of none-existence, time returns to 0 as it never existed, as we longer are able to percieve time and our conciousness disappears into none-being, as invidual entities. Of course other humans will not stop measuring time.

    What happens after death is not percievable as there is no tools to percieve it with when we enter the void of nothingness. Our particles rejoin the cosmic reality and continue, but then they are unconcious.

    I dont believe that time is infinite, there needs to be viable roles and dynamic concrete beings and objects in the fabric of reality itself for time itself to work and be percieved. Without the galaxies and the concrete object's, even time ceases to exist.
    "Where can you flee? What road will you use to escape us? Our horses are swift, our arrows sharp, our swords like thunderbolts, our hearts as hard as the mountains, our soldiers as numerous as the sand. Fortresses will not detain us, nor arms stop us. Your prayers to God will not avail against us. We are not moved by tears nor touched by lamentations."

  5. #25
    Alexander the Terrible yenom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    Okay, I'll just go speculating here a bit, hypothetically..

    Suppose these facts are indeed all true:
    - Time becomes 0 after death. Awareness becomes eternal.
    - Awareness is a product from brain activity.
    - Brain activity requires movement, and movement takes time.

    If all these are all true and our conscious or soul would actually live in a 0 state of time, it would mean we would eternally live in 'nothing'. Not a black void, or representation of nothing. No thoughts, no vision, no senses of any kind. We would have no ability to do or sense anything. If time is nulified, our existance is nulified. So, by means of speculation. One could assume we enter an eternal state. But the eternal state we enter has no meaning. And thus our very existance in that plane, will have no meaning. Our very state of eternal awareness would be an eternal state of nothingness. No memories or thoughts, no sense of self. But actual awareness of eternally being stuck, left with nothing but nothing.


    To me, that doesn't really make much sense. I admit I try to rationalize it. And there's many thing about the universe we do not know. In fact. within our brain could very well be a form of energy no one has yet been able to measure. And that upon death. That form of energy becomes a box to our mind. Like a remnant or copy of our sense of awareness, which lasts eternally since the form of energy is unaffected by time, or matter and thus does not decay. Again speculation. But truth is we don't know. My point is. Wether you believe or not. I think there are viable theories to this regardless of what you believe.



    But my personal opinion about this is very 'scientific' based.



    Like I said, I believe that time isn't really 'there'. An uninfluencable factor that is as real as the concept 'nothing' itself. In that, I believe that when we die, our consciousness dissappearss with it. The transition from alive to death however most assuredly takes some time. As the brain shuts itself down, we might enter certain states of awareness, that we would never enter with a fully functional living brain. All activity slows down in the brain. Until it stops completely and then there is nothing left. Slowly the brain is shutting down and with it our mind and thoughts.
    I disagree with this though. Time is there. Have you tried meditating and shutting down all your 5 senses? You will feel that your mind is still thinking and that time clock in your brain can never be eradicated.

    To deny the existance of time is to deny change happening in the universe. If the human brain experience death and shut doen, what happens to time?" Is it like as you said turn into nothing.

    To have absolute nothing iws to live in a 0 energy dimesion (time is a form of energy i believe), with no touch , and all other 4 senses death. Obivously such a thing is incocievable.

    Fluffy wolf, do you believe the brain manufacture time? and that time will cease to exist when the brain experience death. Or is that 9objective time really exists and the brain merely helps us to observe it?
    The fear of poverty turns people into slaves of money.

    "In this Caesar there are many Mariuses"~Sulla

    Conquer your inner demons first before you conquer the world.

  6. #26
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    No what I mean is, it's not time that we should look at. But movement.

    Time is our explanation for past, present and future. But there is ONLY the present. Past and future are based on our thoughts and memories but do not exist.

    Therefor, time is absolute. And time does not exist. There is only movement. We think we move, the universe keeps expanding. But every movement ever made, was always made in the present. At the time. (I realize this sentence was very contradictive. But it's hard to explain something that does not exist. :P )

    It's kinda hard to really explain to how I view time. But yes, I do deny the existance of time, but not in the sense that you believe I do. I just have an entirely different perspective on it.

  7. #27
    Senior Member matmos's Avatar
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    I would propose the following statement: if time is infinite everything is meaningless; if time is finite, maybe it is not.

    Einmal ist keinmal. If it only happens once it might as well never have happened. Tears in the rain.

  8. #28
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bananatrombones View Post
    I would propose the following statement: if time is infinite everything is meaningless; if time is finite, maybe it is not.

    Einmal ist keinmal. If it only happens once it might as well never have happened. Tears in the rain.
    Well, time does not decide what is or isn't meaningless. We do.

    But to build upon your statement, yes. Your statement definatly has a core of strength. And is definatly a hypothesis one could include in trying to understand the big picture.

    If there is an endgame to existance. Then the method with which we reach that end would have meaning to our existance and ourselves. On the other hand; if there is no end, there would be no means to that end.

    To be, or not to be.

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