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  1. #31
    it's a nuclear device antireconciler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Just because something does not worry you that does not mean that the problem does not exist.
    +1

    A level of healthy concern, as opposed to indifference, should come natural. As a human being, you accept a degree of responsibility for the health and well-being of the race and of the planet in general.

    It's THAT kind of thinking which is so lacking from these people who are attempting to over-represent themselves in the gene pool as though trying to overwhelm the forces of the unknown against them by making themselves larger. This "unknown" consists of their own brothers and sisters, whom they do not recognize. Your Muslim, your Jew, your atheist, and so on: these are all your brothers.

    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010, quoting Kathryn Joyce
    "Our bodies are meant to be a living sacrifice," write the Hesses. Or, as Mary Pride, in another of the movement's founding texts, The Way Home: Beyond Feminism, Back to Reality, puts it, "My body is not my own." This rebuttal of the feminist health text Our Bodies, Ourselves is deliberate. Quiverfull women are more than mothers. They're domestic warriors in the battle against what they see as forty years of destruction wrought by women's liberation: contraception, women's careers, abortion, divorce, homosexuality and child abuse, in that order. Pride argues that feminism is a religion in its own right, one that is inherently incompatible with Christianity. "Christians have accepted feminists' 'moderate' demands for family planning and careers while rejecting the 'radical' side of feminism--meaning lesbianism and abortion," writes Pride. "What most do not see is that one demand leads to the other. Feminism is a totally self-consistent system aimed at rejecting God's role for women. Those who adopt any part of its lifestyle can't help picking up its philosophy." "Family planning," Pride argues, "is the mother of abortion. A generation had to be indoctrinated in the ideal of planning children around personal convenience before abortion could be popular."
    Wow.

    Are not "living" and "sacrifices" opposites? Are not "my" and "is not my own" opposites? Is not "total self-consistency" an indication of correctness?

    It's difficult for me to approach this topic calmly because it stokes my personal fears to feel as though I have no ability to communicate with someone rationally. Patience, huh? Alright, I'll have patience. No one is completely unreasonable. So there's nothing to fear. *takes a deep breath*
    ~ a n t i r e c o n c i l e r
    What is death, dies.
    What is life, lives.

  2. #32
    Senior Member Rangler's Avatar
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    These people make the case for Eugenics. How irresponsible is this? I feel bad for the children who have to grow up in poverty. This guy should have his balls chopped off.
    R[a]ngl[e]r

  3. #33
    desert pelican Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antireconciler View Post
    +1

    A level of healthy concern, as opposed to indifference, should come natural. As a human being, you accept a degree of responsibility for the health and well-being of the race and of the planet in general.

    It's THAT kind of thinking which is so lacking from these people who are attempting to over-represent themselves in the gene pool as though trying to overwhelm the forces of the unknown against them by making themselves larger. This "unknown" consists of their own brothers and sisters, whom they do not recognize. Your Muslim, your Jew, your atheist, and so on: these are all your brothers.
    "My mother and brothers are those who hear God's word and put it into practice."

    One needn't look hard to find the moral depravity of mankind. I think these peoples' hearts are in the right place, but zeal without knowledge is dangerous, and their program isn't complete.

    Is there unity between Jew and Muslim? Muslim and Christian? Christian and Jew? Historically, these groups haven't treated each other as brothers. Their cultural differences and prejudices are perpetuated by their cultural institutions that, in turn, are supported by their underlying beliefs about the ultimate nature of reality and God. In order to prevent physical war, one must first engage in spititual war. Merely slaying your opponent physically is not enough, for he still lives spiritually and remains your enemy. Even if you succeed in destroying the bodies of every beleiver of an alternate worldview, the worldview itself remains intact and capable of making new converts out of your children, or your children's children.

    Would you let a Muslim paint over the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel? How far would you go to stop someone from doing something you thought wrong? In the face of opposition, would you be willing to fight or die for what you believe to be true?

    Quote Originally Posted by antireconciler View Post
    Wow.

    Are not "living" and "sacrifices" opposites? Are not "my" and "is not my own" opposites? Is not "total self-consistency" an indication of correctness?

    It's difficult for me to approach this topic calmly because it stokes my personal fears to feel as though I have no ability to communicate with someone rationally. Patience, huh? Alright, I'll have patience. No one is completely unreasonable. So there's nothing to fear. *takes a deep breath*
    Self sacrifice in this context refers to the self life: the desire to live autonomously, to put oneself in the place of God to determine good and evil for oneself. For the Christian, living merely for the self in this way isn't life; it's the very essence of death, so to sacrafice one's self in this way is the only way to attain true life.

    And I know you're too smart to get stuck on the merely formal contradiction of "my" and "not my."

  4. #34
    it's a nuclear device antireconciler's Avatar
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    I appreciated your comments, Owl.

    Quote Originally Posted by Owl
    "My mother and brothers are those who hear God's word and put it into practice."
    Yes, for what man, woman, or child does not hear God's word and put it into practice?

    ... But I understand that this is not the interpretation of your reply you intended. I take you to mean instead that there are many who either do not hear God's word from insensitivity in their hearts, or either hear it and neglect it, for the same reason. It is true of course that there is much lack of recognition in the world, much that spawns from misunderstanding. There is much that people believe in that is merely half-true: true at the core, yet malnourished and too seemingly isolated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Owl
    Merely slaying your opponent physically is not enough, for he still lives spiritually and remains your enemy. Even if you succeed in destroying the bodies of every beleiver of an alternate worldview, the worldview itself remains intact and capable of making new converts out of your children, or your children's children.
    No idea is strengthed quite so much as fighting against it. Only what is real can be fought against. Fight it, and you admit, as you claim that it is unjustified, that it is justified. It can only feed off your anger.

    The only possibility is absorbtion. You can only take the core of the creed, and make it your own. Men have no ability to believe something entirely devoid of (what we can call) unity-power. Unity-power exists at the core of Islam, even beneath so many confusions, just as it exists within Christianity, just as it exists within atheism. ... But you could not believe this if you thought that humans could entirely turn away from God, and many Christians would suggest that this is possible. It appears, actually, to be quite a mainstream notion, and it stems back to the idea of original sin, that idea that in the beginning, humans disobeyed God.

    Now, I would suggest that humans never disobeyed God, and never had the ability too, but that the original sin was a necessary progression of the maturation of creation, and that the idea that humans can separate themselves from the Creator entirely is an idea which, while a necessary historical development, is actually a psychological projection and a product of short-sightedness which is transcended, through the process of forgiveness, to the seemingly paradoxical idea that humans, while entirely free individuals, are also entirely bound to the will of God.

    I can only suggest it because so long as one's brothers and sisters of the Earth remain alien and appear as attackers and barbarians and so long as we identify them largely by the seemingly separate ideas they hold, that lack of recognition is reflected in the lack of recognition one has for the true unity-power of their own beliefs. For only in this vision does one transcend "belief" and move over into knowing, or what is so often called "faith". Recognition, of course, is exactly identical to forgiveness, and it is clear that no one can teach anyone forgiveness except by hinting at it through forgiveness themselves, but the rest must come from within the individual.

    I can ask no more than that you have a heart, that you have mercy upon all you perceive as enemy, for God created them too, and on earth as in heaven, all is well in God's kingdom, for God never had power or ability to create anything which did not reflect his peace and his compassion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Owl
    Would you let a Muslim paint over the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel? How far would you go to stop someone from doing something you thought wrong? In the face of opposition, would you be willing to fight or die for what you believe to be true?
    Anyone will stop a child from putting quarters in their mouth.

    Dying for your beliefs proves only your belief that they are vulnerable. Yet an idea can never be destroyed. The truth needs no defense. It simply is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Owl
    Self sacrifice in this context refers to the self life: the desire to live autonomously, to put oneself in the place of God to determine good and evil for oneself. For the Christian, living merely for the self in this way isn't life; it's the very essence of death, so to sacrafice one's self in this way is the only way to attain true life.
    I'm familiar with the idea that "surrendering" your will to God places your will in alignment with his own. This is true in a sense, but it can also be quite misinterpreted, for one never looses their own will. The only possibility is absorbtion of the will of God, uniting both yours and God's. "Yours" cannot be destroyed any more than bloodshed or any other sacrifice can atone for sin. "Sacrifice" even implies that something of value is lost, so it is a rather unsuitable and misleading word.

    Quote Originally Posted by Owl
    And I know you're too smart to get stuck on the merely formal contradiction of "my" and "not my."
    Thank you, and I apologize. My questions didn't do the topic justice and arose from fear. I take them back if I am permited.

    It does remain something of a confusion to believe that your body is not your own, and that your will is separate from God's. It may not be MERELY your own, but it may certainly be both God's body AND your body. You ARE an individual, and you DO have your own will, and NOTHING can take that away from you so long as breath still moves in your body.

    Giving up one's own will and failing to appriciate the body as one's own amounts to the idea that surrendering to God truly is a kind of death. Nothing can be further from the truth. There is only life in God. Just as little were the dark ages killed by the European enlightenment, but they were absorbed by it, and it was the dark ages which was in fact responsible for the birth of the enlightenment. Enlightenment was already IN the dark ages, just as the flower is in the plant, just as God is already in the human mind.
    ~ a n t i r e c o n c i l e r
    What is death, dies.
    What is life, lives.

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