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  1. #1
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    Default Let us speculate here.

    Let us speculate here.

    Our corporate and institutional leaders (banks, insurance, think tanks, universities etc.) manage most of our national organized wealth. As is evident by their income these individuals have few overseers, they pretty well set their own financial rewards with little oversight. They have organizations such as chambers of commerce and the Roundtable; they live together in gated communities and country clubs. They exercise control over politicians by financing their campaigns and they exercise control over an uncritical citizenry through media propaganda.

    Is it conceivable that such a group would not organize their ambitions and self-interest in secrecy?

  2. #2
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coberst View Post
    Is it conceivable that such a group would not organize their ambitions and self-interest in secrecy?
    Well, no. If I were in such a group, I doubt I could help the temptation to organize things according to my ambitions and self-interest.

  3. #3
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    i don't know why you had to throw the private sector into this - Corporate salaries and bonus packages are decided by independant boards within the company in order to keep those people in those positions because it is worth it to the company, not because of some racket. If you have a CEO that, according to your figures, makes the company an extra 1 billion dollars every year, a board is VERY well justified in giving out a 150 million dollar bonus.

    The Companies are OBLIGATED to those CEOs, because, yes, their shit is that hot.

  4. #4
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    The government that we have should be representative of the population of the US. Ideally, we elect the officials... they vote on laws on behalf of their constituents. As long as things ran smoothly, I would say that most Americans haven't really cared about how the lawmakers got there. It's in a politicians best interest to be re-elected. They need money to do so. Who has the money? the big businesses..

    I don't think that the operations of these big businesses, like AIG, has been common knowledge or that most American's have really cared. While it may be at a very steep cost, the simple act of those bonuses has caught public attention enough to make the people care. I think that the more people know, and care about it, the more affect this will have on our elected officials. People are watching now, especially since they are the ones footing the bill to bail out the monster corporations. Other large corporations, whether they recieved bailout money or not, are paying a little more attention to their public image at the moment.

    Lets be real here... These large corporations are driven by greed for money and power. Banks and credit card companies get more money from higher interest rates, which they can justify charging if it is a risky loan. They expect people to fail. They get more money from it. People didn't care when it didn't directly affect them, but now it has. While people who held stock from these companies did benefit in the past, many have lost great sums of money with the stock market tanking. If these large companies want to continue to have investors, they will have to prove themselves to be a company that will not again put themselves and other people's money in jeopardy with risky moves that negatively affect all.

    So what I'm getting at is this.. when these private businesses perform in such a way that it affects the general public, there are consequences. It will get brought up in local elections and such if opponents feel it is a sore spot for the citizens that a certain lawmaker was financed by such an institution. So, the big businesses will have to find a way to change their practices if they wish to continue having their political pull. People care now.. it's just a different ball game entirely. Even the government itself is pointing fingers at corruption within the ranks. It's just unfortunate that relatively everyone, including Obama himself, has accepted money in campaign contributions from representatives of big business.

    Of course, that's all in a perfect world. My fear really is that legislation will have to be passed simply because I think people in the presence of money can get a little blinded by what is morally right. I don't think we should take away the american dream of having all the money you could possibly dream of, but when it is at the cost of a less fortunate individual, maybe it should be regulated.

    Just think.. $100 million dollars in just bonuses to a few individuals could mean so much more than just a few people benefiting at the expense of all. It could be money put back into the community for free health clinics. IT could be money going to a college or institution for research into new and improved energy sources. For a large corporation, their focus has been and will continue to be on how to keep those $$$ rolling in, unless something happens to entice them to think otherwise.

  5. #5
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RuffledINTP View Post
    In Bold Below
    Lets be real here... These large corporations are driven by greed for money and power.

    Yup!

    If these large companies want to continue to have investors, they will have to prove themselves to be a company that will not again put themselves and other people's money in jeopardy with risky moves that negatively affect all.

    I agree with what you say above, but the whole "pump and dump" strategy perfected by Enron does not take the long term interests of the company or citizens affected by the company's business into account, just the CEO or other top dogs who want to cash out for making the numbers look good while they are there.

    So what I'm getting at is this.. when these private businesses perform in such a way that it affects the general public, there are consequences.

    Yes, and the $$$ support given by large firms/industries to politicians are turned into favors that ultimately result in relaxing regulations of some type and turn into control frauds that allow large scal predatory fraud as has happened of late.

    For a large corporation, their focus has been and will continue to be on how to keep those $$$ rolling in, unless something happens to entice them to think otherwise.

    Yes, like PUNISHING the white collar criminals that do this shit. Let's get real. If ALL white collar criminals were sent to maximum security penitentiaries, and had to give back all the money they stole, then there would be a HUGE reduction in white collar crimes. White collar crime PAYS, that's why these crooks do it, the $$$ outweighs the RISK of having to pay a crooked lawyer a few hundred grand to get off for whatever it is that happened...

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by nozflubber View Post
    i don't know why you had to throw the private sector into this - Corporate salaries and bonus packages are decided by independant boards within the company in order to keep those people in those positions because it is worth it to the company, not because of some racket. If you have a CEO that, according to your figures, makes the company an extra 1 billion dollars every year, a board is VERY well justified in giving out a 150 million dollar bonus.

    The Companies are OBLIGATED to those CEOs, because, yes, their shit is that hot.
    nonsense

  7. #7
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coberst View Post
    Let us speculate here.

    Our corporate and institutional leaders (banks, insurance, think tanks, universities etc.) manage most of our national organized wealth. As is evident by their income these individuals have few overseers, they pretty well set their own financial rewards with little oversight. They have organizations such as chambers of commerce and the Roundtable; they live together in gated communities and country clubs. They exercise control over politicians by financing their campaigns and they exercise control over an uncritical citizenry through media propaganda.

    Is it conceivable that such a group would not organize their ambitions and self-interest in secrecy?
    I suppose.

    Are you an INFP?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by nozflubber View Post
    i don't know why you had to throw the private sector into this - Corporate salaries and bonus packages are decided by independant boards within the company in order to keep those people in those positions because it is worth it to the company, not because of some racket.
    If I was a consultant and someone paid me handsomely to determine his salary, wouldn't it be smart for me to name a very high number, if I hope to do more work in the future? You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours.

    If you have a CEO that, according to your figures, makes the company an extra 1 billion dollars every year, a board is VERY well justified in giving out a 150 million dollar bonus.
    Incorrect. CEO's are wildly rewarded for manipulating the short term numbers. They are rarely required to create long term value. A blatant example would be a CEO who fires all the engineers and scientists in order to boost the profit numbers for the next quarter. He dooms the company, but what do he care? He met his objective, so he collects his $50M and bails.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    If I was a consultant and someone paid me handsomely to determine his salary, wouldn't it be smart for me to name a very high number, if I hope to do more work in the future? You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours.
    Of course, what else.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    I suppose.

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