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"Do unto others..."

Kalach

Filthy Apes!
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
4,310
MBTI Type
INTJ
The golden rule: "do unto others that which you would have them do unto you."

So say you do unto others a thing you'd really enjoy them doing unto you too.

And what then if the others really don't want to do that unto you, and really kind of hate it when you do it unto them?
 

plaguerat

New member
Joined
Mar 15, 2009
Messages
195
MBTI Type
INTJ
I get it all the time. My persuit of knowledge and truth in many situations leads my friends to get quite mad at me when I'm frank and honest.
 

wildcat

New member
Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Messages
3,622
MBTI Type
INTP
The golden rule: "do unto others that which you would have them do unto you."

So say you do unto others a thing you'd really enjoy them doing unto you too.

And what then if the others really don't want to do that unto you, and really kind of hate it when you do it unto them?
A translation.
The meaning is implicit. It is not exactly lost in the translation.

Do unto others that which you would have them do unto you if you were in their place.
The implicit is the explicit.

A sound comment all the same.
Literacy is analphabetism.
A Jesuit philosophy.
 

Kalach

Filthy Apes!
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
4,310
MBTI Type
INTJ
The more I think about it, the less this "Do unto others..." thing actually works. It can't create a moral society unless there are already some pretty well established dictums for what is good to do unto others.

It's probably fairly good on eliminating hypocritical negative maxims, like say, "I'll punch you in the mouth if you're lippy, but you better like it if I snap at your words." That one doesn't pass the Do Unto test. But what of things you genuinely think are great and would like to see everyone do, like, for example, "I'd like to touch your breasts two or three times a day and, you know what, I'd be proud and pleased if you gave me a diurnal squeeze right there too." I don't know that everyone's going to be down with that.

Or, say, I'm an extrovert, I'd really like it if you jumped up and started speaking non-stop to me too.

Or, everyone better hang with an Fi-values crowd.

Or, just for God's sake leave me alone, most of you bug me.

There's a whole lot of Do Unto Others there that a lot of people will really feel badly about.
 

nightning

ish red no longer *sad*
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
3,741
MBTI Type
INfj
Problem with statement... you're assuming your wants are the same as the other person's... which might not necessarily be true.

I guess this is just a Fe sort of statement... going with the general case of what majority of people will deem as acceptable behavior.
 
G

garbage

Guest
Do unto others that which you would have them do unto you if you were in their place.

This is all that needs to be said.

Since we all think differently, "the golden rule" means first stepping into others' shoes, seeing what they may want done, and acting accordingly. It has nothing to do with a generalized standard of goodness.
 

kyuuei

Emperor/Dictator
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
13,964
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enfp
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8
You can't control the actions of others, only your own. I do unto others because it's the right thing to do, morally, for myself. I don't care if everyone in the world acts immature, and wants to throw tantrums and punch for every tap.. I will still conduct myself the way I feel is right.

I don't allow people to mistake my kindness as weakness, but at the same time, I couldn't hold my head up high if I behaved this way. It's not about how much it works in your favor, or efficiency. It's about what's right, and what will make you feel like you came out the victor no matter the circumstance. In this way.. doing unto others wins every time.

I should mention.. The whole "I did this, even though I KNOW that person would never even think of the same consideration in return" is a frustrating situation... but in the end, if I must choose the resentment of another person's shortcomings, or the potential guilt of making a selfish decision against my moral code.. I would pick resentment every day of the week.
 

ajblaise

Minister of Propagandhi
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
7,914
MBTI Type
INTP
The Golden Rule has too many holes in it.

I have a better rule:

Don't be a prick.
 

Nocapszy

no clinkz 'til brooklyn
Joined
Jun 29, 2007
Messages
4,517
MBTI Type
ENTP
The golden rule: "do unto others that which you would have them do unto you."

So say you do unto others a thing you'd really enjoy them doing unto you too.

And what then if the others really don't want to do that unto you, and really kind of hate it when you do it unto them?

Then you gotcherself a fetish rape case.
 

Magic Poriferan

^He pronks, too!
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
14,081
MBTI Type
Yin
Enneagram
One
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Yes, differeing temperament and worldview really screw up this idea. I would expect it to not be very popular on an MBTI forum, because believing in type helps you to understand that two people may not have translatable values.

What is wrong with the rule...

"As others have done unto you, do unto them."

That rule is closer to how reciprocal altruism works in the evolutionary sense. Not exactly though, because you can't afford to be totally reactionary.

The main purpose to these things is to create manageably consistent social structures.
 

BerberElla

12 and a half weeks
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
2,725
MBTI Type
infp
Yes, differeing temperament and worldview really screw up this idea. I would expect it to not be very popular on an MBTI forum, because believing in type helps you to understand that two people may not have translatable values.

That is the case, but I guess for me my values are pretty standard, I treat people how I want them to treat me, if the way I treat them doesn't translate as good to them, or vice versa then we aren't really compatible for friendship or anything in my eyes.

However I do also implement the below rule:

What is wrong with the rule...

"As others have done unto you, do unto them."
That rule is closer to how reciprocal altruism works in the evolutionary sense. Not exactly though, because you can't afford to be totally reactionary.

Once people piss me off with the first rule. ;)
 

Kiddo

Furry Critter with Claws
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
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2,790
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OMNi
That rule is closer to how reciprocal altruism works in the evolutionary sense. Not exactly though, because you can't afford to be totally reactionary.

The main purpose to these things is to create manageably consistent social structures.

Interesting.
 

kyuuei

Emperor/Dictator
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What is wrong with the rule...

"As others have done unto you, do unto them."

I understand this rule, but to be entirely reactionary leaves you no room for proactivity. To me, this would be limiting your options.

To put yourself in another person's shoes is never to undermine your own actions and reactions, but also gives you a window into proaction, if that made any sense.

For me, if someone steals from me. Even if I understand the motivations, my reaction to do unto them as they have done unto me is to never allow them within my house/car/area again without constant supervision, as well as probably confronting them and locking my valuables off from then on.

This is a better option than stealing from them when they steal from me, and although I could do the latter, the former suits me better. It takes more away from them than valuables, it takes away their respect, trust, and confidence.
 

Risen

Permabanned
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Mar 19, 2008
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3,185
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ISTP
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9w8
If you have any integrity you'll stand by your values and principles through thick and through thin, until you encounter something in life that tells you your values need to change. It is all according to how you would want to be treated. I'm sure many people, however, would rather live in a world where they don't give a rat's ass about how their actions affect others. Oh wait... I think we're almost there.
 

Kalach

Filthy Apes!
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
4,310
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INTJ
I'm going to go ahead and guess no variation on the rule handles cases where other people really don't want to do unto you what you'd be really happy having them do unto you and really want to do unto them.

And I'm going to say, given type, and such differences as say between Fe and Fi, or even between S-mediated Fe and the N-mediated, we all end up equally screwed. Because, unless one system of "good action" just is inherently better than another, then every side has to compromise some of their values. If, that is, we're supposing there must be a Golden Rule of some sort, one rule to ring them all.

And doesn't it feel really, really bizarre to maybe have to say that there's a bunch of well-formed, well-functioning, basically different value systems walking around out there, and things that you think really just are good and proper, well, they aren't, except for you and people like you?

Feels wrong. Whether it's particularly cultural or not, morality--or maybe just the mainstream Western ethical traditions--have, I suppose since at least the Christians and Kant, included the idea that you test your moral ideals by seeing if they can be generalised.

Maybe that idea's wrong.
 

Laurie

Was E.laur
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ENFP
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You guys sound like kids trying to ignore the idea behind a rule of conduct.
 
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