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  1. #21
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLastMohican View Post
    That definition could be twisted given certain examples like mitochondria, but in the context of conception, I think it's sufficient.
    Replace (if) with (since). Then put a (?) at the end instaed of a (.). It depends on ones opinion. The informational context that people don't get out there doesn't include mitochondria or DNA or seperate/extention of 2.
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

  2. #22
    Fe, rusted. Poser's Avatar
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    In short, it is impermissible to interpret the term “right to life,” to give one an enforceable claim to the action of someone else to sustain that life. In our terminology, such a claim would be an impermissible viola*tion of the other person’s right of self-ownership. Or, as Professor Thom*son cogently puts it, “having a right to life does not guarantee having either a right to be given the use of or a right to be allowed continued use of another person’s body—even if one needs it for life itself.”
    I thought this was an interesting read. This made me wonder about a time in the future when it would be possible to remove the fetus from the first sign of pregnancy as an outpatient procedure and the fetus would be sustained to grow to term using machinery. I don't know if that would cause a decrease in the numbers of people that are pro-choice or pro-life? Or if it would just cause a third group to rise up for pro-womb?


  3. #23
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    I am pro-choice for early abortions but I kind of move towards the right as the baby begins to develop.

  4. #24
    your resident asshole
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    Quote Originally Posted by BryNTP View Post
    I thought this was an interesting read. This made me wonder about a time in the future when it would be possible to remove the fetus from the first sign of pregnancy as an outpatient procedure and the fetus would be sustained to grow to term using machinery. I don't know if that would cause a decrease in the numbers of people that are pro-choice or pro-life? Or if it would just cause a third group to rise up for pro-womb?
    This is quite intriguing, if I do say so myself. If it were possible, it would make me feel more comfortable about my pro-life views, but seeing as "using machinery" in developing a fetus is unnatural, I don't know how well that would work out for the very strong religious types. Not to mention, it would be kind of strange to say that you were "born" from a machine of some sort.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyGeek View Post
    This is quite intriguing, if I do say so myself. If it were possible, it would make me feel more comfortable about my pro-life views, but seeing as "using machinery" in developing a fetus is unnatural, I don't know how well that would work out for the very strong religious types. Not to mention, it would be kind of strange to say that you were "born" from a machine of some sort.
    Yeah, but probably no stranger than kids now having to say they only have a mother and their dad was a donation.


  6. #26
    your resident asshole
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    Haha so true.

  7. #27
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireyPheonix View Post
    One regular protestor, it turns had all her kids taken from her by social services...I found her somewhat morally repugnant, but my point is 1) those who not capable of carrying a pregnancy either because they weren't ever capable, or no longer capable, seemed to be the most invested in pro life
    I would find the repugnance in her being unable, but more likely unwilling to parent the children she chose to carry to term or to learn the skills to do so. I would have to squash the urge to slap her hypocritical face down on the ground. That and men and women well past child bearing stage being the most vehement pro lifers also puzzle me.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  8. #28
    Senior Member TheLastMohican's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BallentineChen View Post
    It does make it a separate life form, but it's still derived from pre-existing life.
    Almost all life is. When it is not, we're talking about abiogenesis.

    So, does having unique DNA mean that it deserves its own argument for existence?
    Not necessarily. Our laws mostly apply to treatment of other humans, so human DNA is the type in question here. Until we can provide a logically sound (not arbitrary) definition for when an embryo, fetus or child becomes "human enough" to qualify for the laws that protect older humans, we are stuck with more basic criteria, like the complete DNA.

    If so, what are the implications for twins that share DNA?
    Identical twins don't have "unique" DNA, but it is still distinct DNA from that of either parent. The DNA is important because it means that the embryo is not really a cell or clump of cells belonging to one of the parent's bodies, but rather an organism living inside the mother's body. It is a type of foreign substance, and the body treats it that way: it keeps the blood supply separate, and builds a placenta to keep the fetus contained in its own special environment.

    What about the sperm and the egg before they unite, are their existences meant to be preserved.
    The sperm and egg only have 23 chromosomes each, and can never grow, eat or think without each other, so I do not think they count as human life, only cells that are entirely at the mercy of the rest of the body.

  9. #29
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyGeek View Post
    Whenever pro-life people bring up this point, I always bring up rape. I know it's a touchy subject, but it always makes people think. What if you were raped and got pregnant? Personally, I'm pro-choice, but I would never have an abortion myself.
    A good amount of Pro-life people would excuse an abortion in the case of rape or incest. Because you didn't have a choice in the sex.

    I actually lean more towards pro-choice, but people are deluding themselves when they argue that it isn't murder, because it is.



  10. #30
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLastMohican View Post
    Until we can provide a logically sound (not arbitrary) definition for when an embryo, fetus or child becomes "human enough" to qualify for the laws that protect older humans, we are stuck with more basic criteria, like the complete DNA. being born
    Fixed. Different groups can propose any number of "cutoff" points, with any number of corresponding rationalizations. DNA is a cutoff as much as any other.
    -end of thread-

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