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  1. #11

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    "There are two ways of looking at the world: through faith and superstition or the rigors of logic, observation and evidence -- through reason."

    False dichotomy. So much for reason.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Sahara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NocturnalSun View Post
    False dichotomy. So much for reason.
    Laymans terms how so?
    "No one can be free of the chains that surround them"

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sahara View Post
    Laymans terms how so?
    It isn't just those two options.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Sahara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NocturnalSun View Post
    It isn't just those two options.
    Oh right, I see what you mean, but what other ways are there of seeing the world?

    (Talk slow for the extra F in me lol)
    "No one can be free of the chains that surround them"

  5. #15
    Senior Member reason's Avatar
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    I like the original title.

    Richard Dawkins: the Enemy of Reason

    "Not for the first time, reason is in need of a defence from its supposed friends, as much as its enemies."
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  6. #16
    The elder Holmes Mycroft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NocturnalSun View Post
    "There are two ways of looking at the world: through faith and superstition or the rigors of logic, observation and evidence -- through reason."

    False dichotomy. So much for reason.
    Some dichotomies are real and, indeed, at odds.
    Dost thou love Life? Then do not squander Time; for that's the Stuff Life is made of.

    -- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, June 1746 --

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    Some dichotomies are real and, indeed, at odds.
    Faith and reason may be at odds...but are they mutually exclusive?

  8. #18

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    By nature, NT's tend to be very reason-oriented, but they do not require observation to prove truth. (iNtuitive) Just one example.

    edit: And I am kinda offended that faith and superstition are lumped together as if BOTH are necessarily irrational and opposing to observation. What a mockery! My faith denies what we observe, what we have evidence for? That is EXACTLY what Dawkins pushes. All religion is the same in that it opposes evidence and logic, and that it is rooted in human superstition. That's BS, and why it is a "false dichotomy."

  9. #19
    The elder Holmes Mycroft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NocturnalSun View Post
    By nature, NT's tend to be very reason-oriented, but they do not require observation to prove truth. (iNtuitive) Just one example.

    edit: And I am kinda offended that faith and superstition are lumped together as if BOTH are necessarily irrational and opposing to observation. What a mockery! My faith denies what we observe, what we have evidence for? That is EXACTLY what Dawkins pushes. All religion is the same in that it opposes evidence and logic, and that it is rooted in human superstition. That's BS, and why it is a "false dichotomy."
    That's true, there are certainly religions which are not at odds with the findings of science. (Most forms of Buddhism, for example.) In that sense it is a false dichotomy.
    Dost thou love Life? Then do not squander Time; for that's the Stuff Life is made of.

    -- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, June 1746 --

  10. #20
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    That's true, there are certainly religions which are not at odds with the findings of science.
    That the Abrahamic religions (to pick an example) might be considered in opposition to science would have come as a considerable surprise to, say, Isaac Newton.

    I suspect this is another aspect of the zeitgeist we can ascribe to Darwin...or, more properly, the succession of people who have misinterpreted his work.

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