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Thread: Scientific Racism & Racial Theory

  1. #11
    Senior Member Array ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Apr 2007


    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    What question?
    Your statement was;

    In this case, skin colour does not determine intelligence,

    That's the context of my comment. I'm afraid you are rather transparent, and it's not likely you'll be able to hide behind "well that's not what I said" here, FWIW.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Array Shadow's Avatar
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    Feb 2009


    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    Hmmm... Well, if there are statistical differences between the IQs of different races, I'd suppose that most of it is because they have been raised in a different culture. I don't really know anything about these theories and it must be quite hard to find much cold-headed research about this. Most of it is just people wanting desperately to prove they are better than the others. Anyhow... I don't see that it is completely impossible that there are some differences between the brains of people that have been living in a very different climate and maybe even have been using their brains differently. Still, it seems more likely that the IQ scoring differences are because they are not as educated in Africa.
    I actually saw a programme on the BBC about this last week (Andrew Moseley was trying to see if he could become more intelligent or something), and they mentioned that in America IQ tests showed that there appeared to be a growing gap between the IQ results of the black and white American populations as children grew older. Some scientist sympathetic to the black community is trying to find out why so they can close the gap, and the broad thrust of it is he reckons it's a difference in the values held by teen subcultures in the different races (obviously that's a massive generalisation, but the teen subcultures which are seen as majority black or white. Probably it's not so much the person's race as the subculture which they engage in which is the issue.) In other words, he suggests that the teen subculture in majority black areas values intelligence and success at school less than teen subcultures in predominantly white areas.
    I can't deny or confirm this because I've never met anyone from a black American area. Or even any American area!

    I would imagine this is why so many East Asians and Indians seem to be more intelligent than a lot of white people as well. It's to do with your values at your upbringing. In Japan and China, for example, they're working almost all the time! It's totally frowned upon if you're not intelligent or don't get excellent results at school. So people try a bit harder than if it was seen as not a big deal. This probably means they develop less well in other aspects than other races, such as other races (maybe 'cultures' is a better word?) might come out as less intelligent in IQ tests but might have more practical or emotional intelligence. It's down to cultural values.


  3. #13
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    Jan 2008


    Physical features are undeniably correlated to race. Why would IQ not not be? Different environments favor different features over time.

    That said, I think group statistics are of no relevance. There are smart and dumb people of all races.

  4. #14
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    Sep 2008


    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Since you used the words "refutation", "hypothesis" and "assumption" in conjunction with your referring to what I have written, it's clear that you didn't read what I wrote.
    You specifically stated that you are seeing two possible alternatives which lead me and everyone else who responded to believe that you were presenting your hypotheses of the topic.
    From your OP:
    I'm going to expound upon my current view, which is a kind of brainstorm or mish mash of ideas, and which is totally open to both constructive criticism and a total change. I see myself as an advocate of objective fact, and so if my thinking is not factual, I'd like to know about it. Now, to clarify, I'm a fence-sitter at the moment, for lack of evidence. However, I am seeing two possible alternatives at the moment, and I'd like to see some evidence before I adopt the more racially-orientated viewpoint. You might at this point be looking at the computer screen with complete disgust or bafflement at my choice of words, but consider what I'm talking about and please, respond accordingly. I'm not writing to get trounced by hate mail and bad words from everyone on the board. I'm writing to gain a more appreciative understanding of the world. Nothing I say will lead me to change the way I act or speak towards people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    I read that, and what I see is a whirlwind of different opinions, none of which is remotely conclusive. What's your point? In fact, why are we even talking about IQ? I certainly didn't introduce the notion.

    Again, I didn't mention IQ.
    You mentioned in your OP that you wanted to gain a more appreciative understanding of the world and then dismissed differing opinions. Um yeah, this will by my last interaction with you.

    You mentioned intelligence right here:
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    The subject I'm most interested in is race and intelligence. I want to know whether or not there is (even a rough) correlation between race and intelligence.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Array Anja's Avatar
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    May 2008


    I really don't know if it's possible in a culture run by political correctness to discuss the questions which you have Ezra. But I'm certain that many, if not all of us, who have desired to understand the concepts behind inequality have had to struggle with some of the things you've mentioned.

    And it is very difficult to find information one can trust because everyone's running their own agendas behind the info.

    People are frightened of appearing racist. And with good reason. And many of us lack the information to respond to your questions in a way which wouldn't raise the ire of others.

    I don't know you well enough to judge whether you are being disingenuous or whether you are sincerely seeking facts. I don't know your motivation for seeking knowledge.

    But, having been raised in an extremely homogenous culture I have spent many years trying to find answers to what may seem ignorant questions to others. Not necessarily your questions but other similarly puzzling ones. Such as do Black people sunburn? Heh. Sad, but true. I had to ask. And always afraid to ask for fear of scorn or giving offense.

    My solution has been to make friends of people from many different cultural backgrounds and ask "the experts" from their individual backgrounds the touchy questions I've had. And that only once we have established trust with each other.

    I don't know how it is possible to do this with strangers.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  6. #16
    I'm a star. Array Kangirl's Avatar
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    Dec 2008


    I'm afraid you are rather transparent, and it's not likely you'll be able to hide behind "well that's not what I said" here, FWIW.

    For the record, I oppose political correctness (or whatever you want to call it) hampering scientific research. I say that as a disclaimer - I don't want to be misinterpreted as "oooh well we might not like the results of x,y or z experiment so we should just sweep it all under the carpet and pretend it never existed".

    That said, although I am aware of works like The Bell Curve, I haven't read them/it, and I have nothing like enough specific knowledge on the material covered in it to comment in a worthwhile sense.

    But just as a tip, Ezra my ENTJ friend, if one is trying to come off as sincerely open-minded and interested, it's probably best *not* to include sentences that refer to the "logic" of black people being less evolved/closer to primates than white people. Yes, yes, it was your friend, I got that, but still. Just a tip.

    Gawd, the shite that gets talked around here!
    "Only an irrational dumbass, would burn Jews." - Jaguar

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  7. #17


    I oppose political correctness concerning issues of races, but this whole obsession with IQ is nonsense. I already posted some of thoughts on IQ. I'm particularly disturbed when many Bell Curve enthusiasts seem to argue that one's IQ determines their worth as a human person.

    Concerning issues about the existence of race, I agree that the PC conception of race being purely a "social construct" is BS. Race certainly does exist as a biological entity. What relevance this has in regards to social issues is where the real question is. Too often people confuse social communities built on kinship with "race" in the biological sense.

    I'll add onto this later.

  8. #18
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Array Mole's Avatar
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    Mar 2008


    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Race certainly does exist as a biological entity.
    Every biologist I speak to tells me that there is no genetic basis for race.
    There is NOTHING--absolute nothing--half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats. Simply messing.
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  9. #19
    Enigma Array Nadir's Avatar
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    Dec 2007


    Victor is right, there is no genetic basis for race in that if you go way back you'll see that there's no such distinction among the hominids or whatever the un-evolved, non erect humanoids were called. The understanding of "race" is "black people, white people" does stem from genetic factors however, specifically, the skin color stems from a much higher amount of melanin within the skin texture. Keeping in mind that melanin plays a critical role in sunlight (and therefore harmful UV-ray) absorption, that temperatures were generally higher back then, and that the African area is known for its sweltering weather patterns anyway, perhaps it becomes easier to see why that skin color eventually emerged as a necessary facet of evolution and survival back when we all hanged around that particular continent. Keep in mind that skin color generally becomes whiter the more you go up on the Northern Europe-Europe-Africa highway. The reason is the same, a process spread out to hundreds of thousands of years.

    Intelligence is a much, much more different animal. The basis for improved intelligence is not some "white" person's inherent genetic inclination; it might be now, but it definitely wasn't way back. Intelligence and complexity of thought patterns are improved not by sheer luck: they are shaped by any form of interaction between humans, peaceful or hostile. Geographic factors also play a role in this: there's a reason why Europe is in the center of most world maps, because basically, even though civilization didn't quite start off there, it certainly made its quantum leaps there and around the Mediterranean littoral zones, while at the same time the still-black people of Africa kept stagnating. They certainly didn't have much choice: As you may well know, the lands of Africa aren't known for their agricultural generosity, something Europeans, Mesopotamians, Asians and the Americans (back when we didn't know about them) greatly enjoyed. And you definitely don't need to be a genius to know that the agricultural revolution fueled premodern civilization.

    Premodern civilizations, you say? Well that's just the beginning, and where the story actuallly starts (well even before that, actually, but it's a loooooong one). Just read up on the Greek and Roman empires, their formations and economic systems and you'll start to get an idea as to how they evolved the way they did. I'm feeling too jaded to type even more, but know this: Civilization cradled the mind, and the mind cradled civilization. Something the Africans did not ever get to do.
    Last edited by Nadir; 02-21-2009 at 04:37 PM. Reason: F*ing grammar and typos
    Not really.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Array Anja's Avatar
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    May 2008


    I'm ignorant of whether anyone has designed a culturally specific IQ test. It goes without saying that the standard measure was developed by caucasian males.

    I suppose there would be resistance from both sides to such a thing.

    Does anyone know about this?
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

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