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  1. #51
    rawr Costrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    So nolla, do these men deserve to be honored, since they killed certain people?
    [youtube="fbndUSHL9A0"]tribute to brave finnish soldiers[/youtube]
    I'm guessing you're suggesting they should be? Well, I think it depends on your perspective. They fought to protect their country and their people, so you could honor them for that. But at the same time they killed people, and fully intended to, so they could also be perceived as evil.

    Or maybe that was your point in the first place?
    "All humour has a foundation of truth."
    - Costrin

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    So nolla, do these men deserve to be honored, since they killed certain people?
    Defending yourself is quite a different thing than killing people because they believe in different things. Of course you will say that the russians believed in their course of action and then you will point out that we we're hitler's allies. Where are you going with this?

  3. #53
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post

    There's a difference between the impact of self-determinism, and factual statements about yourself.
    And what are factual statements about oneself?

    Believing something may effect your behavior, which in turn can guide the course of your life
    That's the point.

    Secondly, social darwinism actually has almost nothing to do with Darwin. A man, around the same time as Darwin's theories, independantly developed the sociological theory, and because Darwin was so famous at the time, people slapped the theory with the label "social darwinism" which neither thinker came up with.
    I'm well aware of this. Im not saying Darwinism and Social Darwinism are the same, but it does show the dangers and flaws of tyring to apply "science" to social affairs.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Costrin View Post
    I'm guessing you're suggesting they should be? Well, I think it depends on your perspective. They fought to protect their country and their people, so you could honor them for that. But at the same time they killed people, and fully intended to, so they could also be perceived as evil.

    Or maybe that was your point in the first place?
    Perception is a tricky little devil. The most heinous atrocities are committed with good intentions. Who or what is right?

  5. #55
    rawr Costrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    Perception is a tricky little devil. The most heinous atrocities are committed with good intentions. Who or what is right?
    Whoever or whatever benefits you is right. That's all you can really use to judge. Of course, there isn't really a wrong or right in the objective sense anyway.
    "All humour has a foundation of truth."
    - Costrin

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    Why then don't they create their own?
    I doubt that I could invent toilet paper if I hadn't seen it or been taught to use it... Just because we have all this infrastructure and tools doesn't mean that we are very much better. We have just cumulated the past inventions. Just like apes do. Did you know they have "cultures" in the way they use tools? Some ape clans use different inventions than the others...

  7. #57
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    Defending yourself is quite a different thing than killing people because they believe in different things. Of course you will say that the russians believed in their course of action and then you will point out that we we're hitler's allies. Where are you going with this?
    You claimed that religion has no place in education because it teaches to honor people who killed others. So Im asking if you consistently believe in this when it comes to the men who fought to defend your country, since they killed others. Should they, or should they not be honored in your view?

  8. #58
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    And what are factual statements about oneself?
    I am not a rock. Let's just say that there's a lot of observable, verifiable, replicatable evidence that this is factually true.

    ...Do you really want to get into a debate about the existence of facts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    I'm well aware of this. Im not saying Darwinism and Social Darwinism are the same, but it does show the dangers and flaws of tyring to apply "science" to social affairs.
    How about trying to apply science to teaching science? Is that dangerous? If we do that, then no intelligent design will be taught in science classes.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  9. #59
    desert pelican Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    The whole world is magic. Just believe. Like kittens and rainbows. Awww
    Quote Originally Posted by Costrin View Post
    Whoever or whatever benefits you is right. That's all you can really use to judge. Of course, there isn't really a wrong or right in the objective sense anyway.
    What benefits you is determined by what you are, and what you are is determined by what is real.

    Before one can provide a rational justification to his answer to the question: "what is good?", he must provide rational justification to his answers to the questions: "what is real?", and "what am I?".

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Costrin View Post
    Of course, there isn't really a wrong or right in the objective sense anyway.
    Much of right and wrong comes from "good of community". Survival of the fittest community kinda thing, so... you might be able to find right and wrong in almost objective manner.

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