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  1. #41

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    As the self-appointed referee in this particular match, I declare Darwin the winner.
    Anyway this entry in Roger Eberts Blog is about as well balanced as it gets.

    You can't convince others against their will so why even try?

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didums View Post




    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Very often what you believe does determine much about you.
    I think everyone in the thread will agree with that statement.



    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    You can't convince others against their will so why even try?
    Yes, exactly. Let's get back to the dragon discussion.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Very often what you believe does determine much about you.
    All the more reason to not teach religion as history. There are people whose religion teaches them to honor those who kill certain people and so on... How about they knew the facts, the other people are just like them, apes and nothing more. Just as valuable.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    All the more reason to not teach religion as history. There are people whose religion teaches them to honor those who kill certain people and so on...
    And what exactly do they teach in Finnish schools about the men who fought off the Soviet invasion in the Winter War?

    How about they knew the facts, the other people are just like them, apes and nothing more. Just as valuable.
    If they're apes and nothing more, then they're not valuable at all. How about we get into the history of Social Darwinism and the effects it had on the world?

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    How about they knew the facts, the other people are just like them, apes and nothing more. Just as valuable.
    Even the theory of evolution doesn't present man as equal to an ape in development. If one wants to be an ape---the box to leave your toliet paper behind is on the left, exit to the trees on the right.

    Thank you.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    And what exactly do they teach in Finnish schools about the men who fought off the Soviet invasion in the Winter War?
    I can't say I know much about the finnish men who fought there. I think we were taught how the war progressed and so on. There are some famous plays and fictional books about it of course, but they aren't used to educate history.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    If they're apes and nothing more, then they're not valuable at all.
    Well, yes. We are only valuable in our own community and as a part of our species. If you ask an ape, I don't think it values humans much.

    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    Even the theory of evolution doesn't present man as equal to an ape in development. If one wants to be an ape---the box to leave your toliet paper behind is on the left, exit to the trees on the right.

    Thank you.
    Taught apes would choose the toilet paper.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    And what exactly do they teach in Finnish schools about the men who fought off the Soviet invasion in the Winter War?
    So nolla, do these men deserve to be honored, since they killed certain people?
    [youtube="fbndUSHL9A0"]tribute to brave finnish soldiers[/youtube]

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    I can drop a wrench on your foot and demonstrate gravity. No comparable demonstration exists for evolution.
    Actually, a lot of demonstrations exist for evolution now - it has become pretty much the most explored theory (simply due to the diversity of nature and the degree of evolution involvement at both micro and macro levels - a lot of disciplines work on it) out there. Dogs were used by MP, but most schools go through the fruit fly, the bacteria and the virus mutations in labs now.

    That's actually what makes the OP sad to me. We are what we are, and a lot of people want to hide from it.


    (And of course, I'm sure I'll have to state that evolution does not explain the origin of life, and doesn't... we are still trying to build life from inorganic materials... and while we are close that, it's not biological yet. We can only build biological machines... the whole reproduction thing is trickier. Wait a few years and that'll be different.)

  9. #49
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Ahhh spoken like a true NT. In actuality, truth is subjectivity. Very often what you believe does determine much about you.

    There's a difference between the impact of self-determinism, and factual statements about yourself. Believing something may effect your behavior, which in turn can guide the course of your life, but it can't change factual reality. That you believe you are a pumpkin does not make it so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    If they're apes and nothing more, then they're not valuable at all. How about we get into the history of Social Darwinism and the effects it had on the world?
    Hey, I like apes. They are worth a lot.

    Secondly, social darwinism actually has almost nothing to do with Darwin. A man, around the same time as Darwin's theories, independantly developed the sociological theory, and because Darwin was so famous at the time, people slapped the theory with the label "social darwinism" which neither thinker came up with.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post

    Taught apes would choose the toilet paper.
    Why then don't they create their own?

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