What is the definition of life?

[Shaula]

If we knew exactly when life began then abortion wouldn't be such a hot topic.

*And now that it's been brought up I hope this doesn't turn into another useless debate on abortion.

I have to ask... out of sheer dumb, morbid curiousity...
was it.. like.. moving around.. in the trash can??

Yes, but don't worry it would have developed into an INTJ.

 

[Anja]

Yeah, I thought of that after I posted. Glad you steered it back, Shaula.

The thought does arise, nonetheless, but I think the scope of the OP was larger than simply human life.

I don't know any more about the radio report than what I said.

 

[AOA]

Life is Potential.

... the potential to 'be' or not to 'be'.

It's what we make for ourselves, and we leave behind (I guess) - a way of using our minds to organize and plan, and of course part of it is to understand the conventions to some degree.

... as for the 'abortion' thing - hmm, yes it is quite an obstructive topic...

 

[Qre:us]

What is the purpose of life?

To maintain life.

 

[Polaris]

I can only consider a thing alive if that thing brings me outside of myself and allows me to see the world from behind its eyes. That's the first condition. The second condition is that when I fully return to myself, it must still seem reasonable and not fanciful to consider that thing conscious. This is an arbitrary judgment, of course. In a more objective sense, everything I empathize with, from literary characters to the people on the street, are given life through my act of empathy.

 

[Jonny]

What the hell does it matter, so long as you and I agree on the definition of the word in the particular circumstances in which it is used. Biologists often argue over whether viruses should be considered alive. To me, this is sooooooooo stupid so utterly stupid it infuriates me. I'm having my Fe moment. FUCK all of you damn stupid people who think a word has a particular definition, should have a particular definition, and argue over that definition. It's either stupidity or an attempt to attach connotations to particular people, ideas, or situations that aren't warranted. Manipulation I say... manipulation!

ahem... lol. sorry for that.

 

[The_Liquid_Laser]

Don't Biologists has a somewhat universal definition for life, or am I mistaken about this?

 

[Jonny]

Don't Biologists has a somewhat universal definition for life, or am I mistaken about this?

You are mistaken. But it's ok.

 

[Qre:us]

Don't Biologists has a somewhat universal definition for life, or am I mistaken about this?

Did you read the thread, dear sir? Esp. the OP?

Or, DARE TO QUESTION ME?!!!

{there is no one agreed-upon definition as of yet, btw}

How to Define Life

Using the above list, a question: Are viruses alive?

....but, yeah, it'd be interesting to even debate about why the definition of life is presently concrete v. debatable.

So....welcome....

Thoughts?

 

[The_Liquid_Laser]

Did you read the thread, dear sir? Esp. the OP?

Or, DARE TO QUESTION ME?!!!



....but, yeah, it'd be interesting to even debate about why the definition of life is presently concrete v. debatable.

So....welcome....

Thoughts?

Heh, I suppose I was confused, because this ended up in the philosophy section. It seems like somewhat of a mundane question to me, but here is my viewpoint.

I'm not a biologist, but mathematicians have quite a bit of practice with explicitly stating definitions. The purpose of a good definition is to help provide a proper framework for discussion of relevant topics. In this case Biology is the study of life. Therefore if biologists want to study viruses, then it would be useful for them to define viruses as a form of life.

 

[Qre:us]

Heh, I suppose I was confused, because this ended up in the philosophy section.

Yeah....I foresaw this confusion as well...but left it up to, well...debate

Dudes, OP, OP...haha, love the ENTP-missing-a-mundane-details.

PS - I think this was posted in the wrong section, more applicable to the Science & Tech, or Philosophy? I'll let the admins decide.

***

It seems like somewhat of a mundane question to me, but here is my viewpoint.

Well, one of the most obvious direct implications I see is to the prolife/prochoice debate.

I'm not a biologist, but mathematicians have quite a bit of practice with explicitly stating definitions. The purpose of a good definition is to help provide a proper framework for discussion of relevant topics. In this case Biology is the study of life. Therefore if biologists want to study viruses, then it would be useful for them to define viruses as a form of life.

Specialists study things that is not, for comparative control, too. Does that make virus: 'life' or close-but-no-cigar?

 

[Jonny]

Heh, I suppose I was confused, because this ended up in the philosophy section. It seems like somewhat of a mundane question to me, but here is my viewpoint.

I'm not a biologist, but mathematicians have quite a bit of practice with explicitly stating definitions. The purpose of a good definition is to help provide a proper framework for discussion of relevant topics. In this case Biology is the study of life. Therefore if biologists want to study viruses, then it would be useful for them to define viruses as a form of life.

Bah. Biologists study more than just life; they study things relating to life. To believe that they would need to classify a virus as alive in order to study it makes me giggle. I am going to believe you were joking. Also, I never said that definitions aren't essential, just that arguing about them is worthless, unless of course one is attempting to manipulate.

 

[ilovetrannies]

The definition of life is that it sucks and then you die. Good shit happens. Bad shit happens. Zen and balance is key to keeping your sanity.

 

[The_Liquid_Laser]

Bah. Biologists study more than just life; they study things relating to life. To believe that they would need to classify a virus as alive in order to study it makes me giggle. I am going to believe you were joking. Also, I never said that definitions aren't essential, just that arguing about them is worthless, unless of course one is attempting to manipulate.

I believe you missed my point. I don't care how biologists define life. My point is that they should define it based on whatever definition would make their job easier.

Yeah....I foresaw this confusion as well...but left it up to, well...debate

Dudes, OP, OP...haha, love the ENTP-missing-a-mundane-details.

PS - I think this was posted in the wrong section, more applicable to the Science & Tech, or Philosophy? I'll let the admins decide.

***

Well, one of the most obvious direct implications I see is to the prolife/prochoice debate.

I don't think you realize this, but the OP is vague as hell. That is the reason why I'm confused about this thread. The OP clears up nothing, and the details you are pointing up in the OP explain nothing. Even now you're telling me this thread is about both viruses and abortion. Which is it? What really is the point of this thread? To ask a vague question just to see where the discussion goes?

 

[Qre:us]

I don't think you realize this, but the OP is vague as hell. That is the reason why I'm confused about this thread. The OP clears up nothing, and the details you are pointing up in the OP explain nothing. Even now you're telling me this thread is about both viruses and abortion. Which is it? What really is the point of this thread? To ask a vague question just to see where the discussion goes?

To address the question: what is the [universal] definition of life...it was stated in so many words in the OP.

...and if we can't have an universal definition, why/why not. (e.g., viruses)

Debate/discuss. <- point of thread.

I don't do thought simply for thought but its associations, applications to some aspect of reality, some understanding of reality and how a thought can affect it, so, it becomes an obvious point that if asked, WHY do we need to have an universal definition (I was addressing your point of why this question is [to me] not mundane)...hence, the topic of abortion came about.

A thought is nothing without associations, without spurring of other thoughts, esp. when put forth to be discussed, debated. One just has to have the skill to follow along to understand the relevance, if justification is obviously presented.

 

[onemoretime]

Using the above list, a question: Are viruses alive?

Only as much as DNA is alive. Both are forms of chemically-coded information.

The bigger question is life one singular classification without any comparison, or is it simply a subclass of a larger type of chemical organization? Maybe one called "self-replicating media"?

It all comes down to energy in the end, anyway.

 

[sculpting]

past viruses you have several other forms of self relicating material.

transposons hop from gene to gene by using the host replication mechanisms. Millions of bases of our genetic code are transposons.

Prions are self aggregating protein material. So who cares cause some protein clumps up? happens all the time. Except when one clumpled protein from a cow gets eaten by certain folks it induces proteins in thier brain to clump as well-thus mad cow disease. Far more simple than viruses but self replicating.

but "self replicating media" could also include chemicals that when mixed will form crystals correct? The crystals will keep forming as long as there is a source of liquid to pull from.

what is past chemicals-individual atoms? which will react according to laws of thermodynamics and produce compunds.

there is no end.

 

[INTJ123]

Words can't do it justice. Living and experiencing life gives much greater understanding than a mere sentence or paragraph describing it.

 

[Ginkgo]

I've always wondered about other forms of intelligence. Maybe there are things out there that are not, by definition, "alive", but have still manifested into intelligence.

If we really are the product of abiogenesis, then their may be other elemental formations in which intelligence can arise. (Like robots, but produced by natural means).

 

[Phoenix_400]

The definition of life is that it sucks and then you die. Good shit happens. Bad shit happens. Zen and balance is key to keeping your sanity.

I'm a firm believer in maintaining balance in one's life.

However, I always thought the definition of Life was "Its sexually transmitted and always fatal".

Gotta love knowledge gained from witty t-shirts