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Optimism vs. Pessimism

LucrativeSid

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Joined
Oct 20, 2007
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837
You can get to the next floor by taking the stairs OR the escalator. The only thing worth questioning is where you're trying to go and what you're willing to do to get there. Everybody is on the path to where they are headed. I don't think I'm too optimistic or pessimistic, but most of the time other people think I'm more optimistic because I seek positive experiences. Things often deemed impossible by other people are exactly what's worth pursuing. Were the Wright brothers fundamentally optimistic? Probably. How else could they attempt to achieve the impossible? Were they pessimistic many times along the way? Most likely. I'm the same way.
 

Shaula

Te > Fi > Ni
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Nov 27, 2008
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608
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I hate life too. I wish i was dead. In pessimism you only hurt yourself and those around you, its not life thats meaningless its you that makes it meaningless. :(
:huh: You're putting words in my mouth and rather stereotypically too.

I see things for what they are and I expect the worst of it but that doesn't mean that I don't strive for what I want in life. If anything it makes me work harder.
 

metamorphysics

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Feb 3, 2009
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32
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:huh: You're putting words in my mouth and rather stereotypically too.

I see things for what they are and I expect the worst of it but that doesn't mean that I don't strive for what I want in life. If anything it makes me work harder.


I know, I like to dramatically over exaggerate things from time to time, still rooted in a apparent shred of truth and in a weird way "justice"... now looking back on it, however, i would probably say i let my emotions get too much in the way, so sorry for that.

Doesnt a diest also see things for what they are? You dont see things for what they are untill you reach enlightenment... so uh, what drug is that again?

btw, what do you want?
 

metamorphysics

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You can get to the next floor by taking the stairs OR the escalator. The only thing worth questioning is where you're trying to go and what you're willing to do to get there. Everybody is on the path to where they are headed. I don't think I'm too optimistic or pessimistic, but most of the time other people think I'm more optimistic because I seek positive experiences. Things often deemed impossible by other people are exactly what's worth pursuing. Were the Wright brothers fundamentally optimistic? Probably. How else could they attempt to achieve the impossible? Were they pessimistic many times along the way? Most likely. I'm the same way.

well if the condition of your reality has parameters, a set "right" and "wrong", for optimism/pessimism than this statement "I don't think I'm too optimistic or pessimistic" isnt true(unless you think your personality is perfect on this subject)... and theres nothing wrong with being too optimistic(in a logical way), yet alot wrong with being too pessamistic.
 

Alpha Prime

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Pessimism is useless, and quite pathetic. Realism is an illusion, there are only good/bad approximations of reality.

That leaves (moderate) Optimism as the strongest and most logical viewpoint to adapt.
 

JocktheMotie

Habitual Fi LineStepper
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
8,491
I am generally pessimistic and cynical. I love where I am in my life now, I'm pretty happy, have a good job, do well in school, and snagged myself a great girl.

I just try to examine and forecast every possible situation. I think outcomes generally have more negative possibilities, however that doesn't mean I always expect them to happen. I tend to think I'm realistic more than I am overtly negative, but others may interpret my worldview to be jaded.
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
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Jun 6, 2008
Messages
19,769
I place myself outside of this spectrum.

I consider myslef to be realistic/relativistic person in general.
 

Halla74

Artisan Conquerer
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sx/so
I am a die hard optimist. Part of that is being a ESTP, another part is ADHD, and I guess the rest comes from having creative and motivated parents.

You can lay down and die or you can pull up your britches and do what needs to be done. And frankly, I'd rather get things done smiling and laughing than moping around with a little scowl on my face from being a sad little pessimist.

Solutions to problems are formulated out of positive energy, not negative energy.

I too am grounded by being realistic, but I consider that a blessing because it just forces me to identify the constraints of what I have to work with (time, help from others, quality of work desired) and formulate a winning strategy with those in mind, up front.

Is the glass half empty or half full? :)
 

King sns

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I think I'd describe myself as a realist. Everything is what it is, and I can put whatever slant I choose that works best for me. I choose mostly to view things as good, positive, or happy, since that is usually the most beneficial for me. So I guess you could say I'm a realistic optimist. Or an optimistic realist.
Sometimes I can be negative if I don't think things through, though. And sometimes negativity has its place when things need to change.
 

metamorphysics

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Realism is an illusion, there are only good/bad approximations of reality.
Ones ability to determine those "good/bad approximations of reality" and how to get them would than be "Realism", so its not an illusion.

I place myself outside of this spectrum.

I consider myself to be realistic/relativistic person in general.

But if in reality there is a state of mind that is better(optimism or pessimism) than the "realist" would place themselves inside this spectrum. Yea sure you cant touch, smell, taste, hear, or taste the answer, but you see thats where thought comes in...

Common misconception: pessimists are unhappy.

It is only a misconception if your "value" is generally pessimistic, seeing as there are cases where good things do happen and cause the apparent form of happiness... But it is not a misconception to say that the optimist is more happy than the pessimist(assuming all other conditions of reality are the same), in that to be optimistic is to embrace that form of happiness before an intended specific goal. In other words, in reality, your being has many lesser goals and not one overarching specific goal which only causes happiness to acheive the Ultimate goal -- pessimism, in nature, suspends many of these "lesser" goals thus preventing the ultimate outcome of your greatest goal. So, in essence, pessimists are more unhappy than optimists(assuming all other conditions of reality are the same).

I think I'd describe myself as a realist. Everything is what it is, and I can put whatever slant I choose that works best for me. I choose mostly to view things as good, positive, or happy, since that is usually the most beneficial for me. So I guess you could say I'm a realistic optimist. Or an optimistic realist.
Sometimes I can be negative if I don't think things through, though. And sometimes negativity has its place when things need to change.

A hidden NT. Sometimes, at least ;)
 

Costrin

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It is only a misconception if your "value" is generally pessimistic, seeing as there are cases where good things do happen and cause the apparent form of happiness...

No one is completely pessimistic or completely optimistic. But even if in all cases you predicted a negative outcome, there would likely be times where a positive outcome happened instead. This gives you the inherent satisfaction of the positive outcome, plus the unexpected pleasant surprise. In some ways, this could mean that pessimists end up more happy.

But it is not a misconception to say that the optimist is more happy than the pessimist(assuming all other conditions of reality are the same), in that to be optimistic is to embrace that form of happiness before an intended specific goal. In other words, in reality, your being has many lesser goals and not one overarching goal which only causes happiness to acheive the Ultimate goal -- pessimism, in nature, suspends many of these "lesser" goals thus preventing the ultimate outcome of your greatest goal. So, in essence, pessimists are more unhappy than optimists(assuming all other conditions of reality are the same).

Pessimism does not suspend any goals, and neither does happiness embrace any. It is simply a way of viewing, a perspective. Pessimists predict negativity, optimists predict positivity. That is all. Nowhere in the definition is there any mention of ultimate goals, or lesser goals. Neither does is it an indicator of how accurate you are. If you are an optimist, and continually predict positive outcomes, yet they constantly fail to materialize, you could be unhappy. Reverse for a pessimist, where if you constantly predict negative outcomes, yet the positive outcomes materialize, you will probably be happy, plus, if the negative outcomes happen anyway, then it is possible it is less of a sting, as it isn't unexpected.
 

Alpha Prime

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Ones ability to determine those "good/bad approximations of reality" and how to get them would than be "Realism", so its not an illusion.

Yes it is. You will never, ever, have a map (sensory data) of reality that is 100.00[..]00% accurate, unless you're omnipotent and all knowing. Reality is too complex and dynamic.
 

metamorphysics

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Yes it is. You will never, ever, have a map (sensory data) of reality that is 100.00[..]00% accurate, unless you're omnipotent and all knowing. Reality is too complex and dynamic.

No its not. I am saying that if your statement is true about reality, than that is the condition of reality that determines "realism". For example, if the statement that says "you cant have a map that is 100% accurate" is true, than that would be the condition of reality(in that context), and "realism" would be understanding/knowing this condition and basing your actions off of it.

No one is completely pessimistic or completely optimistic.

You missed the Italic'ed word, damn it.

But even if in all cases you predicted a negative outcome, there would likely be times where a positive outcome happened instead. This gives you the inherent satisfaction of the positive outcome, plus the unexpected pleasant surprise. In some ways, this could mean that pessimists end up more happy.
Well almost everything looks good(and if its not, its not too important and doesnt contradict my overall answer), I actually address most of your points.

Pessimism does not suspend any goals, and neither does happiness embrace any. It is simply a way of viewing, a perspective. Pessimists predict negativity, optimists predict positivity. That is all. Nowhere in the definition is there any mention of ultimate goals, or lesser goals. Neither does is it an indicator of how accurate you are. If you are an optimist, and continually predict positive outcomes, yet they constantly fail to materialize, you could be unhappy. Reverse for a pessimist, where if you constantly predict negative outcomes, yet the positive outcomes materialize, you will probably be happy, plus, if the negative outcomes happen anyway, then it is possible it is less of a sting, as it isn't unexpected.

Most of what you said, i assume is already a given(or at least the essence of it), if its not an assumption than I addressed it, and if i havnt addressed it(or you didnt understand) I will attempt to now...

The lesser goals and ultimate goal (happiness) I refer to are used in context of being where your state of mind (in this case pessimism/optimism) can determine the outcome of these, the specific goals(like sex or food) are less deterministic on the state of mind(which I refer to). It is not the definition of "pessimism/optimism" I talk about (b/c i take this for granted), it is the goals (happiness) that I talk about in relation to pessimism/optimism.
 

Costrin

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You missed the Italic'ed word, damn it.

You seemed to be arguing against a "pure" pessimism, which I pointed out, is a position no one actually holds.

You didnt read anything I said, did you? Well almost everything looks good(and if its not, its not too important and doesnt contradict my overall answer), I actually address most of your points.

Yes of course. The problem is definitely that I didn't read your post, and yet decided to respond anyway. It certainly couldn't have been that maybe I misunderstood it (which could be either of our faults), or possibly that you misunderstood my post.
 

metamorphysics

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You seemed to be arguing against a "pure" pessimism, which I pointed out, is a position no one actually holds.

And, as I pointed out, I wasnt arguing against.

Yes of course. The problem is definitely that I didn't read your post, and yet decided to respond anyway. It certainly couldn't have been that maybe I misunderstood it (which could be either of our faults), or possibly that you misunderstood my post.

sorry about that, lol, i get annoyed when people dont understand me, thus cuasing me to say/do things that arent "fair" to that person(ill edit that insult, having little to do with the discussion, out). And your right "understanding" could be either of our faults.
 

Costrin

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And, as I pointed out, I wasnt arguing against.



sorry about that, lol, i get annoyed when people dont understand me, thus cuasing me to say/do things that arent "fair" to that person(ill edit that insult, having little to do with the discussion, out). And your right "understanding" could be either of our faults.

And I get annoyed when people assume things about me (mostly when they aren't true). But the past is the past, lets move on to the future of a productive conversation. :)


The lesser goals and ultimate goal (happiness) I refer to are used in context of being where your state of mind (in this case pessimism/optimism) can determine the outcome these, the specific goals(like sex or food) are less deterministic on the state of mind(which I refer to). It is not the definition of "pessimism/optimism" I talk about (b/c i take this for granted), it is the goals (happiness) that I talk about in relation to pessimism/optimism.

Yeah.... nope, still not sure what exactly you're saying. You're saying that, optimists will preemptively be happy before an event occurs, because they expect it will be positive, and reverse for pessimists?

If so, then I disagree. If only based on personal anecdote, then that isn't how it works for me. I'm actually pretty neutral to the future and what events I expect will occur. I try to work towards positive outcomes, but I'm not disappointed if it doesn't happen.

However, you could probably say that for some optimists and pessimists, this does apply, however, this is based on the individual, and not inherent in optimism and pessimism.
 

Didums

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Jun 20, 2008
Messages
680
This is not the best of all worlds, nor is it the worst of all worlds.

It can be naive to think optimistically, and it hurts when your optimism lets you down, but it ultimately triumphs in making one more happy and pulling them through the hard times.
It can be realistic to think pessimistically, but it can prevent you from obtaining happiness by stunting your ability to see possible goods and taking the risk in pursuing them.
 

ajblaise

Minister of Propagandhi
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Aug 3, 2008
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I'll add that pessimism can also be naive, and often is. Like when someone thinks something won't work, when in reality it's possible and even probable. Very common.

A lot of the time, pessimists aren't being realists, they are just depressed.
 
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