User Tag List

12 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 17

Thread: The Seer

  1. #1
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    18,529

    Default The Seer

    The Ancient Greeks had the Oracle of Delphi.

    She could see things - perhaps even the future - so she was a see-er. Or as we call her today, a Seer.

    At one level her sayings were not understood so it was vital to give meaning to her sayings.

    Fortunately we are meaning creating animals and the sayings of the Seer provoke us to give meaning to what she says.

    Normally we include meaning in our communications, but a Seer sees things without meaning. It is as though the Seer presents to us the natural world. And the natural world is natural but without meaning.

    It is up to us, the meaning creating animals, to give the natural world meaning. Just as it is up to us to give meaning to the sayings of the Seer.

    So we say, the meaning of any communication is its response.

    This of course only applies to the sayings of a Seer.

    Oddly enough many here complain they can't understand my sayings.

    This is because I do not include meaning in my sayings. I rely upon you to give meaning to my sayings.

    I know this is counter-intuitive but as a Seer I need my Amanuensis to give meaning to what I see.

    So this is the choice the Oracle gives you - you can know the meaning but be blind, or you can see but not know the meaning.

    Or you can put your assumptions aside and give meaning to what I see.

    So together we can see and know the meaning.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ISFJ
    Posts
    6,020

    Default

    You like to speak as if all you did was to number facts. But in the end you emit just as much opinion as the rest of us.


    What's the meaning behind the above saying (of mine)?

  3. #3
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6 sx/so
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    5,554

    Default

    ...what?
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  4. #4
    Senior Member placebo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    492

    Default

    Isn't there a theory that Seers saw visions due to inhaling the fumes of ethylene gas?

    Anyway, meaning is inherently created in the order of your words. You can't place all the responsibility upon the reader to create meaning. You have deliberately chosen the words to convey a message. Perhaps we can place it into our own concepts, but it is up to you to express ideas in a way that can be perceived as meaningful.

    "Colorless green ideas sleep furiously" is nonsensical, and has no inherent meaning, but we understand the meaning of it as a concept of it being an example from Chomsky about meaning of sentences. Every sentence you have written makes sense, therefore has some type of meaning suggested by YOU.

  5. #5
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    18,529

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by placebo View Post
    Isn't there a theory that Seers saw visions due to inhaling the fumes of ethylene gas?

    Anyway, meaning is inherently created in the order of your words. You can't place all the responsibility upon the reader to create meaning. You have deliberately chosen the words to convey a message. Perhaps we can place it into our own concepts, but it is up to you to express ideas in a way that can be perceived as meaningful.

    "Colorless green ideas sleep furiously" is nonsensical, and has no inherent meaning, but we understand the meaning of it as a concept of it being an example from Chomsky about meaning of sentences. Every sentence you have written makes sense, therefore has some type of meaning suggested by YOU.
    This is superficially logical.

    However it leaves out the fact that the cognitive faculties, including logic, are suspended in a trance.

    And rather than inhaling ethylene, the Oracle spoke in a deep trance. And her saying reflect this.

    So I am inviting you to co-operate with me while I am in a trance.

    Of course you may not know how to do this. Or you may not want to do it.

    But it is an invitation I make to you.

    I am inviting you to be my Amanuensis.

    I would think you respect the invitation and accept or not.

    There is not much point arguing about an invitation - even with logic.

    Mathematics, for instance, begins with an injunction - "make a distinction".

    And there is no more point in arguing with an injunction than an invitation.

  6. #6
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6 sx/so
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    5,554

    Default

    .......WHAT?
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  7. #7
    Senior Member placebo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    492

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    This is superficially logical.

    However it leaves out the fact that the cognitive faculties, including logic, are suspended in a trance.

    And rather than inhaling ethylene, the Oracle spoke in a deep trance. And her saying reflect this.

    So I am inviting you to co-operate with me while I am in a trance.

    Of course you may not know how to do this. Or you may not want to do it.

    But it is an invitation I make to you.

    I am inviting you to be my Amanuensis.

    I would think you respect the invitation and accept or not.

    There is not much point arguing about an invitation - even with logic.

    Mathematics, for instance, begins with an injunction - "make a distinction".

    And there is no more point in arguing with an injunction than an invitation.
    Ok. I Seer.

  8. #8
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    18,529

    Default

    An amanuensis is to a seer as text is to an image.

    An image has no meaning of its own, but it can be given meaning by a text.

    So interestingly, an image can have many meanings.

    And of course a seer sees images.

    The seer is after all a see-er.

    And naturally what the seer sees has no meaning, so it is normal not to understand the seer until you bestow meaning yourself.

    You already do this when you compare a member to an image. You give meaning to an image my naming it after a member. And this is a popular and successful thread.

    So essentially you are making metaphors by comparing members to images. And its fun.

    In the same vein I am asking you to give meaning to what I see - to make metaphors - to mint metaphors.

    I have the courage to say what I see, so why not have the courage to say what I see, means?

    You may think it is too complicated but look how complicated and silly MBTI is.

    Try something new.

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Posts
    71

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    So together we can see and know the meaning.
    But wouldn't the Greeks themselves have rejected that particular third way? Unless you and I (metaphorically speaking, and btw, I love the word Amanuensis; where'd you find it?) are to be radically united, how will I see what (as) you see, and you know what (as) I know? And, for that matter, isn't seer and speaker united in the lyric poet, at least in theory?

    Of course, "we" may not refer to an entity wherein properties are shared (this would be closer to my "radical union" concept), but rather to a self-completing system. Interestingly enough, this distinction is central (I bet) to the concept of the Holy Trinity.

    Trance is pleasantly metaphorical. Is the state of awareness a trance? (interpretation is a funny process. Am I reading me into you now? Is that invalid?)

    So the point is that you say something and we interpret it?

  10. #10
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    18,529

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by silverchris9 View Post
    But wouldn't the Greeks themselves have rejected that particular third way? Unless you and I (metaphorically speaking, and btw, I love the word Amanuensis; where'd you find it?) are to be radically united, how will I see what (as) you see, and you know what (as) I know? And, for that matter, isn't seer and speaker united in the lyric poet, at least in theory?

    Of course, "we" may not refer to an entity wherein properties are shared (this would be closer to my "radical union" concept), but rather to a self-completing system. Interestingly enough, this distinction is central (I bet) to the concept of the Holy Trinity.

    Trance is pleasantly metaphorical. Is the state of awareness a trance? (interpretation is a funny process. Am I reading me into you now? Is that invalid?)

    So the point is that you say something and we interpret it?
    You ask some interesting questions and I would like to address them one by one.

    But in the meantime I might say, every seer has his amanuensis. In fact I thought of calling myself, "Victor Amanuensis", but I realised I can't do both things at once.

    Of course I can do them separately, but not together.

    And I want to do them together because it opens up the possibility of harmony, just as two instruments may play together in harmony, and so play a tune greater than the sum of the parts.

    So for harmony, each instrument is dependent on the other, just as a seer and the amanuensis depend on each other.

    - to be continued -

Similar Threads

  1. The Banned and The Damned
    By Haight in forum Official Decrees
    Replies: 331
    Last Post: 11-30-2017, 07:12 PM
  2. The Madmin Blog
    By Haight in forum Official Decrees
    Replies: 51
    Last Post: 01-19-2013, 05:40 AM
  3. Eileen (to the left)
    By Eileen in forum Welcomes and Introductions
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 04-24-2007, 07:55 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO