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Thread: The Seer

  1. #11
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverchris9 View Post
    I love the word Amanuensis; where'd you find it?
    The word, 'seer', comes from the preliterate world, the world without text, the world of images, that we have inhabited for the last 200,000 years.

    Whereas, 'amanuensis', comes from the literate world that is barely 200 years old.

    And the Bible warns us of graven images, preparing us for the invention of the printing press in 1440, giving rise to the dream of universal literacy, only achieved in the last 200 or so years, and at first only in the West.

    The seer is vouchsafed visions or images, while the amanuensis appears on the surface to be a mere clerk, but he holds the key to meaning.

    And be not fooled - always remember Clerk Kent is superman.

    And if you don't believe me, look what universal literacy has achieved over the last 200 years.

    But the world is changing. We have moved from tribal illiteracy to universal literacy. And now we are moving from literacy to electronic tribalism.

    Now, now is the right time for the seer and the amanuensis to work together.

  2. #12
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    The word, 'seer', comes from the preliterate world, the world without text, that we have inhabited for the last 200,000 years.

    Whereas, 'amanuensis', comes from the literate world that is barely 200 years old.

    The seer is vouchsafed visions or images, while the amanuensis appears on the surface to be a mere clerk, but he holds the key to meaning.

    And be not fooled - always remember Clerk Kent is superman.

    And if you don't believe me, look what universal literacy has achieved over the last 200 years.

    But the world is changing. We have moved from tribal illiteracy to universal literacy. And now we are moving from literacy to electronic tribalism.

    Now, now is the right time for the seer and the amanuensis to work together.
    You're fucking brilliant, Victor.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  3. #13
    Senior Member matmos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    The Ancient Greeks had the Oracle of Delphi.

    She could see things - perhaps even the future - so she was a see-er. Or as we call her today, a Seer.

    At one level her sayings were not understood so it was vital to give meaning to her sayings.

    Fortunately we are meaning creating animals and the sayings of the Seer provoke us to give meaning to what she says.

    Normally we include meaning in our communications, but a Seer sees things without meaning. It is as though the Seer presents to us the natural world. And the natural world is natural but without meaning.

    It is up to us, the meaning creating animals, to give the natural world meaning. Just as it is up to us to give meaning to the sayings of the Seer.

    So we say, the meaning of any communication is its response.

    This of course only applies to the sayings of a Seer.

    Oddly enough many here complain they can't understand my sayings.

    This is because I do not include meaning in my sayings. I rely upon you to give meaning to my sayings.

    I know this is counter-intuitive but as a Seer I need my Amanuensis to give meaning to what I see.

    So this is the choice the Oracle gives you - you can know the meaning but be blind, or you can see but not know the meaning.

    Or you can put your assumptions aside and give meaning to what I see.

    So together we can see and know the meaning.
    You are of course correct, Victor. But remember what happened to the Trojans, when they didn't listen to Cassandra?

    A snake may have licked your ears (as it were) but like Cassandra, the Trojans will never listen. Like Piggy (the epileptic in Lord of the Flies), the visionary - they'll deal with you if they can get their grubby little mitts on ya.

    Which of course they won't, unless Ajax (or his modern equivilent) climbs down your chimney and kidnaps you.

    Wonderful thing, these interwebs.

    All the best.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by bananatrombones View Post
    You are of course correct, Victor. But remember what happened to the Trojans, when they didn't listen to Cassandra?

    A snake may have licked your ears (as it were) but like Cassandra, the Trojans will never listen. Like Piggy (the epileptic in Lord of the Flies), the visionary - they'll deal with you if they can get their grubby little mitts on ya.

    Which of course they won't, unless Ajax (or his modern equivilent) climbs down your chimney and kidnaps you.

    Wonderful thing, these interwebs.

    All the best.
    Dear Bananatrombones, it was wonderful to hear from you on Australia Day. And yes, the Trojans are an object lesson. And yes, the Flies and Ajax are a danger. So I'll take the next step.

    Perhaps I will step into topology, after all it does bear a resemblance to typology. Perhaps we can throw the Flies and Ajax off the track.

    Look to your left, BT, and look to your right and you will see a left hand and a right hand. But all we have to do is turn you inside out and your left becomes your right, and your right becomes your left.

    And it is the act of turning you inside out that is interesting. Normally we move things around - but we leave them as they are. We don't normally think of turning them inside out.

    But of course once we turn you inside out, we know we can turn you outside in.

    And it is possible to move smoothly from inside out, to outside in.

    And although it is more fun to turn BT inside out and outside in, for those a little squeamish, a sock may be used instead.

    All this of course illustrates a double movement. A seer, for instance, turns himself inside out, while an amanuensis turns herself outside in.

    They are not moving in opposite directions - they are not moving at all - they are simply changing left to right and right to left. It is a bit counter-intuitive.

    Until now the seer and the amanuensis have been at war. Both believe they are right - and both have good reason to believe they are right.

    From the seer's point of view, the amanuensis is authoritarian and insists on the dominance of the outside. While from the amanuensis' point of view, the seer is chaotic and insists on the dominance of the inside.

    So one might say that the amanuensis is extroverted, while the seer is introverted.

    And, as you say, the interweb is bringing the Es and the Is together. In fact you might say the purpose of MBTI is to help Es and Is to understand one another - the Flies and Ajax meet Piggy and Cassandra.

    And the seer, we hope, shakes hands with his amanuensis.

    But the first meeting is a scary one, on both sides.

    Thank heavens, we have Bananatrombones to mediate.

  5. #15
    Senior Member matmos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Perhaps I will step into topology, after all it does bear a resemblance to typology.


    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    From the seer's point of view, the amanuensis is authoritarian and insists on the dominance of the outside. While from the amanuensis' point of view, the seer is chaotic and insists on the dominance of the inside.
    Cassandra is a slave to Apollo. Always, always listen to Cassandra - or the Greeks will get ya!

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    But the first meeting is a scary one, on both sides.

    Thank heavens, we have Bananatrombones to mediate.
    My pleasure... I'm also available for marriages, wakes and barmitzvahs...

  6. #16
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    Victor, You have the most amazing way of looking at things.
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
    Real life awaits and she is a demanding mistress.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireyPheonix View Post
    Victor, You have the most amazing way of looking at things.
    It was Ezra Pound, the infamous American Fascist, who taught me to look at things this way,

    In his advice to young poets, he said, "Make it new, make it new".

    And rather than being hanged for treachery after the war, he was taken home with the rocket scientists and records of all the medical experiments carried out in the Camps.

    'Cause he was the father of modern poetry and Abstract Expressionism, used as a flag in the Cold War.

    So it is not so much the way I look at things that is amazing, it's that things are amazing.

    The maze under Chartres Cathedral was built in 1235, and to discover one's true self, you enter the maze.

    You should not enter the maze lightly as you will meet the cloud of unknowing, and you will be lost in the wild forest without a track to follow.

    But this is only way to discover your true self - by following the path of Parsifal into the trackless forest.

    And when you discover your true self, you will be a-mazed, or simply amazed.
    Last edited by Mole; 02-08-2009 at 12:01 AM.

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