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Thread: Equality

  1. #31
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FemmeUrbane View Post
    What is balance then?
    I meant balance in this particular case. Not "balance" as this ethereal concept.
    Trying to balance things out is important. True equality is impossible to achieve, but completely giving up on it is not the answer I'd say. Hence balance - you win some you lose some, but you keep on fighting.



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  2. #32
    ByMySword
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    Equality is a nice utopia, but now the sad reality we have to accept is that your everyday joe doesn't help that process much, it's the bright and rare that do. But those are too often left behind for the sake of equality.
    I agree with pretty much everything you've said.

    But I'll say that you don't necessarily want to leave out the everyday joe altogether.

    They're not the movers and shakers, mind you, but every society needs a backbone. For every leader there must be followers.

    So I would say they do contribute to a point.

  3. #33
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ByMySword View Post
    I agree with pretty much everything you've said.

    But I'll say that you don't necessarily want to leave out the everyday joe altogether.

    They're not the movers and shakers, mind you, but every society needs a backbone. For every leader there must be followers.

    So I would say they do contribute to a point.
    Indeed, but it would have taken me like 4 times longer to explain, and then i'd want to go one level deeper, and deeper, and deeper, until we have a book ready for publication.
    So I usually stick to something superficial, it's a good time saver and long posts bore me, so I try not to torture my entp brethrens

    I might quickly add that a too aristocratic system (read, aristocracy as ruled by the best not 'the nobility' ) has it's risks. Including ending up promoting social stagnation. But I believe the socio political zeitgeist of the western world has become quite excess-proof in those matters. The fact people complain about inequalities nowadays is in fact mainly due to an hypersensitivity to inequalities in our civilization. Which is both good and bad, for it produces negative externalities such as those I discussed before, summed up in the concept of 'equaling people down' and the impoverishment it bring to society.
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  4. #34
    o edward cullen! Ardea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    The fact people complain about inequalities nowadays is in fact mainly due to an hypersensitivity to inequalities in our civilization. Which is both good and bad, for it produces negative externalities such as those I discussed before, summed up in the concept of 'equaling people down' and the impoverishment it bring to society.
    People realize that we're never "quite done yet" with evolving. We always need something to work towards. And whether we like it or not, we seem to want this sort of utopia, and will continue to work towards it. Call it a side effect of ratchet theory and post-materialist concerns. ((if these two concepts are intrinsically linked to humanity, then one can logically deduce that this progression is unavoidable!!! and that we were meant to do this!))

    Whether we think this is good or not, we are going to work more and more towards something that is a bastardization of equality (because we are not perfect, nor would hierarchy function on such a concept). Equality doesn't and never will exist, but that will not stop us, as a whole, from trying. It's a universal move, so there is something that's forcing us into this evolution of sorts. Just sitting back and calling it impossible seems almost absurd, since we are all moving towards this goal together.

    Perhaps... the more we have, the less we want... or is it the more we want to give...
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  5. #35
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Equality before the law is all we should strive for. Anything more leads toward this...

    [YOUTUBE="YKHzFWkH0Po"]Harrison Bergeron[/YOUTUBE]
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  6. #36
    o edward cullen! Ardea's Avatar
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    We should be equal to be more than just X. But when we are only free to be X, justified by certain standards, we cannot be more than it.

    That little movie thing... we all ready have it. An SJ world... "it's just that way..."

    I don't, won't, can't buy it.

    We should be free to be more than something. Equal gives us that opportunity. Perhaps there is a paradigm problem here.

    Have any of you ever studied minority/women/lgbt psychology, sociology, politics, or literature?

    You guys seem to think that being equal would hinder you, instead of free you. Perhaps we are coming from two different sides of society...
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  7. #37
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    Equality does not mean making everyone the same. It refers giving everyone a subjectively equal opportunity to enjoy the fruits of their labor.

    A democratic society cannot function without at least an illusion of equality.
    YES! To take that further, if we subscribe to Locke's concept of equality when forming a common-wealth, it means that equality is such that every individual born has a right, not a priviledge, to be free from opression, and marginalization, regardless of race, religion, creed, and/or any other inherent human differences. (very much so Charter of Rights..hmmm)

    It is not so much in terms of absolutes that we must focus on equality. It is not so much with an expectation to achieve an ideal social milieu, but, the very act of striving towards equality, that is of utmost importance. To cry for equality is to make a stand towards, not with an end in sight, but, a direction - forward, not stagnant, and not backwards.

    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    A retard who'll never amount to anything in his life will get about 20times the support given to a smart, interesting, and curious kid.
    How does that even make sense.
    It is not about 1-to-1 efficiency of input to output. It is more about a sustainable efficiency of society, indicative of how we treat the 'worst of the worst', the vulnerable, the ones on the fringes of society. Every normal distribution will have those lying along the extremes. It is a natural occurance. By extrapolating your logic, we would flat out in no time. Potential, paradoxically, would not be maximized, but, reach a plateau, if we didn't account for the extremes. Hence, the direction of *how* we account for the extremes, thus, becomes of importance.

  8. #38
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    I think there's a degree of power and personal bias obsession for people that don't think of equality as necessary.

    It almost seems like.. If you want equality, you're striving for something that's simply impossible in the eyes of others. But to me.. people who care little for it seem to cling to power struggles and people being "more" or "less" than other people.
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  9. #39
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    I understand what you're saying, kyuuei. It's like carrying the dichotomy in their thoughts gives it more power than it deserves.

    In my experience equality isn't something that can be given to you. For me it's been something I have had to take for myself. Assume my spot. BE equal.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  10. #40
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    I think there's a degree of power and personal bias obsession for people that don't think of equality as necessary.

    It almost seems like.. If you want equality, you're striving for something that's simply impossible in the eyes of others. But to me.. people who care little for it seem to cling to power struggles and people being "more" or "less" than other people.
    This depends on how you define equality. If you're talking about equality of outcome, then equality is in direct conflict with freedom.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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